English Catholicism as a separate Western Rite?

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Some modern day Protestants try and argue that the pre-reformation Church in Scotland was Celtic rather than Roman, with its own rites which differed from Europe. I suspect that this is a position taken to justify the Scottish Reformation by saying that the Church had become separated anyway. BTW I am Scottish (100%) - my ancestors came across from Ireland in the 1840’s so I consider this too long a time frame to consider my blood anything other than Scottish. I couldn’t care less whether I’m referred to as Scots Scottish or Scotch. However I hate even the smell of Scotch Whisky. As my name is Patrick (Pat) i also get called a number of things relating to Ireland, most of which can’t be repeated here.
 
Some folk argue the same for all the Isles. And from long before the reformation.
 
Knowing a lot about the Ordinariate, I have often wondered if the Ordinariate could become its own Rite? To have a distinct Rite within the Church, not being a theologian, it seems you have to have a different liturgy. That liturgy embodies a different culture.

The Anglican Ordinariate seems to have that. They have a distinct liturgy, which reflects its distinct “Anglican patrimony”, which they often talk about. Though there’s no signs of this, let’s say significant parts of the Southern Baptists wanted to come into the Church. Is their culture different enough to warrant creating an Ordinariate for them? And, could it become a Rite? I mean, after all, the Eastern Rites were mostly Eastern Churches who had been practicing Christians for centuries. They developed on their own, separately from Rome. And, when some of them wanted to come back, Rome said, “There is a richness in these differences. You don’t have to change your Liturgy or your traditions. All you have to do is submit to the Primacy of Peter, and make sure you accept all of the teachings, etc”.

If the OP means that the Latin Rite Catholic dioceses in England should be their own RIte, I just don’t see why. They may have a different culture, but not any more different than a Japanese Latin Rite Catholic, or a German one, or an Italian one. In other words, I see no reason why those differences would necessitate/ call for their own Rite. It would also be confusing with the Ordinariates. The Latin Rite Catholics in England would be their own thing, but the Ordinariates would still be a use in the Latin Rite. That doesn’t make sense to me.

In a nutshell, I can see this question being asked of the Ordinariate. And, it has been asked. The answers I’ve read as to why the Ordinariate shouldn’t be its own Rite have not been convincing, IMO.
 
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Wesrock:
This was denied.
Even interest in the ordinariates that were established in 2011 was short lived, and the groups seem doomed to eventual extinction as they are not attracting new members and are losing its mostly elderly current members due to the ravages of time.
This doesn’t seem to be true from everything I’ve read. The Ordinariate in the U.S. seems to be particularly healthy. What is true of all the Ordinariates is that they have many priests for small numbers of lay faithful. So, for the foreseeable future, all 3 of the Ordinariates (even if declining, which I find debatable) would be able to offer many Ordinariate Form Masses for small congregations.

They all talk about the New Evangelization quite a great deal though. Probably partly motivated to their self-preservation. I’m a Latin Rite Catholic, but I read the quarterly publications of the Ordinariates from time to time, and they’re always heralding new congreations joining, new priests being ordained. And they also talk a lot about young people as well. So, in short, I disagree they’re anything but healthy. I’ll leave you with the statistics on the U.S. Ordinariate, from Catholic Hierarchy:
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
 
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GKMotley:
But I don’t see any figures that might lend light on the subject, currently.
Figures are really hard to come by. At best, you have to rely on oblique statements…
Excuse the triple post. This site, Catholic Hierarchy references the Annuario Pontificio. The Vatican’s annual statistics publication. It costs like $70-$100. So, very few lay people get it. But, the guy who runs this site does, and he uploads the statistics. All 3 Ordinariates are listed here:
http://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/diocese/duspo.html
http://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/diocese/dgbpo.html
http://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/diocese/daupo.html
 
This site, Catholic Hierarchy references the Annuario Pontificio.
I’ve seen those figures before. They seem to indicate that membership has leveled off in all three ordinariates, as lay membership did not grow from 2014 to 2016.

One of the leaders of the British ordinariate admitted:

“We must be honest and say the ordinariate has not grown as much as we hoped it might. The vision has not been caught".

https://www.thetablet.co.uk/news/684/mgr-keith-newton-ordinariate-growth-is-too-slow

I have read similar comments about the American one, too.
 
Thank you. This is more info than an interested Anglo-Catholic would normally stumble across. I appreciate it. I would like to continue to track the status. As with the Pastoral Provision Anglican Use parishes, back in the day, detailed info, such as average age of the parishes (more interesting as the phenomenon matures, than in the first few years) was hard to get. One also would like to see if the change to requiring priests to be unmarried has any impact. I have marked this site.

Again, my thanks.
 
Mgr Newton was one of the Forward in Faith Anglican Bishops who were instrumental in moving Anglicanorum Coetibus into being.
 
Ok, they seem to have leveled off. That doesn’t point to “doomed to eventual extinction”.
We don’t have statistics more recent than the 2017 Annuario Pontificio. So, maybe they’ve grown since then.

I will say, anecdotally, there’s a new Ordinariate Mass being offered near me, only since December or so (7 months ago). Its not a full Ordinariate parish, but an Ordinariate Mass at a Diocesan parish. And its brand new. I haven’t been yet, so I can’t speak to the vitality of it yet.

But, have faith! Would you agree the Ordinariates will still be around in 10 years? That’s a lot of time for evangelism and the Holy Spirit to work. Let’s keep in mind, that the Ordinariates are currently between 8 and 9 years old. So, they’re going to turn 10, and at least turn 20. So, let’s keep them in our prayers.

According to those statistics, there were 11,500 members of the Ordinariates in 2016. Which, according to Wikipedia (which has been maligned on this thread already), is doing better or on par with 6 of the 23 Eastern Rites: Eastern Catholic Churches - Wikipedia
 
Go, to that parish, if you can, and report back, it you will. It’s a subject that has interested me since the first days of the Pastoral Provision/Anglican Use.

There are factors that I watched, during that period, that I wondered how would be handled, under Anglicanorum Coetibus, and that I want to watch, over time. As a Continuing Anglican, I have watched my parish serve as a refuge for orthodox Episcopalians for years. The likely target population to grow the Ordinariate in this country is disaffected Episcopalians. And I fear, for both of us, that that stream has dried up. I would just as soon that were not the case, for either of us.
 
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