English Chants Orthodox Church

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Yep. Some Orthodox don’t like to hear it, but the Eastern patrimony is as much Catholic as it is Orthodox.
 
I wish more churches converted the Latin Chants in English with the same melody.
 
It is very hard to translate from one language into another and still keep the rhythm, shorter/longer sounds, rime and poetic form that is needed when the words are supposed to be sung. Pray for those who have to do it.

There are a lot of “not very good to very bad translations” that are almost impossible to sing to the original chant/hymn tune and in those cases, I think it is better to have a new tune composed, that is similar in style or a completely different tune with the content of words formulated to fit the tune.
 
I have no idea why we can’t do this as a Latin Church. I believe it would a tremendous gift to our liturgy. Agree with you a thousand percent.
 
I’m guessing one could find Latin hymns that could be chanted in the breviary. I’m not sure why they are not sung at Mass 😞

ZP
 
HeDa said:
It is very hard to translate from one language into another and still keep the rhythm, shorter/longer sounds, rime and poetic form that is needed when the words are supposed to be sung. Pray for those who have to do it.
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Papa Ephraim did it a St. Anthony’s for 7 years to move through the entire weekly permutations, and they had to graph each song in the 8 tones in translation and then adjust the English to the metrics of the song, then recheck for meaning, and re-adjust… Helps to be ocd I should think, and to be a linguist, and a chanter, and totally brilliant…

It was called the Divine Music Project, and is available online here:St. Anthony's Greek Orthodox Monastery
It is a vast and comprehensive page…

geo
 
I am not fond of Byznatine chant , especially as sung by people who have trouble with the Oreintal scales. I like the Ledkovksy setting.

 
dvdjs said:
I am not fond of Byzantine chant,
especially as sung by people who have trouble with the Oriental scales.
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Yes, especially those people…

The Services are a work - A holy work - A labor nonetheless…

Marriage is not the Honeymoon…

A beautiful and enchanting aesthetic wears off…

A beautiful bride can become a liability…

The early Liturgies wear well as labors of Love…

I heard a Hierarchical Divine Liturgy in Holy Virgin Cathedral in San Francisco - Received Communion ththe that day - Bishop Kyrill - Whose music, sung by operatic singers in 4 part Russian harmony reminiscent of Tchaikovsky, was so hauntingly beautiful and live that I felt transported into Heaven itself, that I had found Salvation in the beauty of that music… Which was not true…

But the music was sure beautiful…

Yet the Liturgy is a Common Work, a gathering of the Faithful to pray for the world and to be fed and strengthened… It’s aesthetic beauty can be both benefit and distraction… But it is a labor every time… And we love the beauty of our houses of worship…

geo
 
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George720 said:
Yes, especially those people…
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I am not sure that I understand your point.

Augustine noted that he who sings well prays twice. Sings well. I hope that you are not suggesting that it is unkind to suggest that singing well involves singing in idioms that one can execute properly. People engaged in church music often take great pains to make sure that \what they are doing adds rather than detracts and distracts from the people’s experience.
 
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dvdjs said:
geo said:
Yes, especially those people…
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Those people who lack talent for singing in the 8 Byzantine tones…

It was a little dig at sonorous snobbery…

Prayer is the thing, and yes, if talent is lacking, straight chanting can and should be the rule, because as you say, the singing should help rather than hinder the prayer embedded in chant…

otoh, a lot of monks do simple chanting of their services having vocal skills that lack much talent… I know one who croaks like a frog - no voice at all - Like Ama Jamal singing along with his keyboard as he plays beautiful music - but who is a solitary, whose prayer is a symphony concealed in chanted croakery…

So I guess my point was that it is easy to get judgmental over the sounds of the chanters being less than optimal, and that having perfect sound is no substitute for God - And can lead to one’s thinking that the beautiful music confers the experience of divinity in Services…

But my opinions tend to be not necessarily centrist…

Mind you!

Here is fairly common monastic Russian Chanting from Valam Monastery:


geo
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