Enoch and Elijah

  • Thread starter Thread starter Faith1960
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
F

Faith1960

Guest
If the haven’t died, aren’t glorified…where ARE they?
 
Faith1960 said:
If the haven’t died, aren’t glorified…where ARE they?
Click to expand...
I cannot be certain of which saints claimed this but I believe that Elijah and Enoch are in a level of heaven called paradise and they are awaiting the end time fulfillment and the time that they will come and preach against antichrist.Antichrist will have them killed thus this will fulfill scripture that all men die.
 
Faith1960 said:
If the haven’t died, aren’t glorified…where ARE they?
Click to expand...
Malachi 4:6- “Lo, I will send you Elijah, the prophet, Before the day of the LORD comes, the great and terrible day, To turn the hearts of the fathers to their children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers, Lest I come and strike the land with doom.”

Heaven since the Cross, Elijah was seen in the Transfiguration with Moses glorified, which was past-future -in the, I AM -IS -present.

He was in purgatory. Moses died and was buried-purgatory (Deut. 34:5-6). Both he and Elijah, but in a vision both meet Jesus in the glory of His resurrection, an event to which Moses and Elijah have not yet attained (Heb. 11:39). The vision was granted the disciples after Jesus had spoken of the glory of immortality in the coming kingdom.

Heaven was closed, no one could obtain this. All the elect were in purgatory as all sinned.
 
GaryTaylor said:
He was in purgatory. Moses died and was buried-purgatory (Deut. 34:5-6). Both he and Elijah, but in a vision both meet Jesus in the glory of His resurrection, an event to which Moses and Elijah have not yet attained (Heb. 11:39). The vision was granted the disciples after Jesus had spoken of the glory of immortality in the coming kingdom.

Heaven was closed, no one could obtain this. All the elect were in purgatory as all sinned.
Click to expand...
Thanks for posting this.
 
GaryTaylor said:
Malachi 4:6- “Lo, I will send you Elijah, the prophet, Before the day of the LORD comes, the great and terrible day, To turn the hearts of the fathers to their children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers, Lest I come and strike the land with doom.”

Heaven since the Cross, Elijah was seen in the Transfiguration with Moses glorified, which was past-future -in the, I AM -IS -present.

He was in purgatory. Moses died and was buried-purgatory (Deut. 34:5-6). Both he and Elijah, but in a vision both meet Jesus in the glory of His resurrection, an event to which Moses and Elijah have not yet attained (Heb. 11:39). The vision was granted the disciples after Jesus had spoken of the glory of immortality in the coming kingdom.

Heaven was closed, no one could obtain this. All the elect were in purgatory as all sinned.
Click to expand...
I thought enoch and elijah hadn’t died.
 
Enoch and Elijah were assumed into Heaven and so their bodies are nowhere on Earth.
 
Faith1960 said:
So they’re alive and well, living upon a cloud or floating around through the air until the end of the world comes?
Click to expand...
They are Gods holy people, their immortality is a result of Gods essence-“energy”. Are you saying there’s a scientific dilemma here? I don’t see where?
 
GaryTaylor said:
They are Gods holy people, their immortality is a result of Gods essence-“energy”. Are you saying there’s a scientific dilemma here? I don’t see where?
Click to expand...
St. John Paul Il said “heaven, hell and purgatory are states of being of a spirit or human soul, rather than places as commonly perceived and represented in human language.”
So how can two human bodies be there?
 
Faith1960 said:
St. John Paul Il said “heaven, hell and purgatory are states of being of a spirit or human soul, rather than places as commonly perceived and represented in human language.”
So how can two human bodies be there?
Click to expand...
No human body is in Heaven nor ever will be in Heaven. They are there in their glorified bodies - like the ones that Jesus and Mary have.
 
TheDoctor said:
No human body is in Heaven nor ever will be in Heaven. They are there in their glorified bodies - like the ones that Jesus and Mary have.
Click to expand...
It was my understanding that they didn’t die and aren’t in their glorified bodies. Is that wrong?
 
Faith1960 said:
It was my understanding that they didn’t die and aren’t in their glorified bodies. Is that wrong?
Click to expand...
I don’t know there is official teaching on this, its a conversation in consideration of Jesus Christs decent and ascent. But I don’t know a reason why they wouldn’t be in the communion of saints as they are honored in the church.
 
Thomas Aquinas

newadvent.org/summa/4045.htm

“Christ wished to be transfigured in order to show men His glory, and to arouse men to a desire of it, as stated above (Article 1). Now men are brought to the glory of eternal beatitude by Christ–not only those who lived after Him, but also those who preceded Him; therefore, when He was approaching His Passion, both “the multitude that followed” and that “which went before, cried saying: ‘Hosanna,’” as related Matthew 21:9, beseeching Him, as it were, to save them. Consequently it was fitting that witnesses should be present from among those who preceded Him–namely, Moses and Elias–and from those who followed after Him–namely, Peter, James, and John–that “in the mouth of two or three witnesses” this word might stand.”
 
GaryTaylor said:
Thomas Aquinas

newadvent.org/summa/4045.htm

“Christ wished to be transfigured in order to show men His glory, and to arouse men to a desire of it, as stated above (Article 1). Now men are brought to the glory of eternal beatitude by Christ–not only those who lived after Him, but also those who preceded Him; therefore, when He was approaching His Passion, both “the multitude that followed” and that “which went before, cried saying: ‘Hosanna,’” as related Matthew 21:9, beseeching Him, as it were, to save them. Consequently it was fitting that witnesses should be present from among those who preceded Him–namely, Moses and Elias–and from those who followed after Him–namely, Peter, James, and John–that “in the mouth of two or three witnesses” this word might stand.”
Click to expand...
What does that mean with Enoch and Elijah? Did they die and be become glorified? I don’t think it says.
 
Faith1960 said:
What does that mean with Enoch and Elijah? Did they die and be become glorified? I don’t think it says.
Click to expand...
It doesn’t it leaves the point open as to pre-post resurrection. Death is absolute? I don’t follow?
 
GaryTaylor said:
It doesn’t it leaves the point open as to pre-post resurrection. Death is absolute? I don’t follow?
Click to expand...
I guess I’ll wait for more replies. I’ve always thought that Enoch and Elijah were taken to Heaven but had not tasted death.
 
Faith1960 said:
I guess I’ll wait for more replies. I’ve always thought that Enoch and Elijah were taken to Heaven but had not tasted death.
Click to expand...
Your basing your assumptions on faulty Scripture exegesis rather than on Church doctrine.
 
Is there any way possible that the Garden of Eden still exists–that it is right outside the gates of Heaven–and that Enoch and Elijah are there now and will return at the end of time as the two witnesses?

I don’t believe that Enoch and Elijah went to Heaven–the gates were locked until Jesus ascended there.

But I do believe that Enoch and Elijah went somewhere. If not the Garden of Eden is it possible that they went to the bosom of Abraham–but while everyone else there was there only in soul and spirit–that they were also there in body?

That way there being there in body would not outrank Mary eventually being assumed into Heaven but would point to it?

I guess what I’m really saying with all of this is I do believe that Elijah and Enoch went somewhere–and possibly their whole bodies and not just their spirits went there–not by their own power of course but by the power of God?

So did Elijah and Enoch go somewhere? If they did–where did they go? And what are the chances that they ARE the two witnesses spoken of in the Apocalypse?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top