Enoch and Elijah

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Faith1960 said:
If they didn’t die and weren’t glorified how can they be in heaven ? 😦

And I thought your POV is that they did die.
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My point of view is they are subject to the fall in the garden. As to their related state and what constitutes mortality and immortality, from there, in Jesus I Trust, so strictly speaking I believe they encountered death of the body is some fashion of blessing.
 
Faith1960 said:
The priest from EWTN says they didn’t die.
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We would be in agreement there. And I agree with most of what he is saying, I don’t see his continuity between the first and second link in relation to the entire deposit of faith. Which would be Original Sin, Baptism, Incarnation of the Word of God, Transfiguration, Passion, Resurrection-Decent-Ascent, also with all this is Matthew 27:52-52 and its cross-reference. Then how this is reconciled with the Dormition-Assumption.

I tend to make sure mine has this continuity, be it I may venture off the beaten path slightly. Very slightly…special favor/mortality-immortality.
 
GaryTaylor said:
We would be in agreement there. And I agree with most of what he is saying, I don’t see his continuity between the first and second link in relation to the entire deposit of faith. Which would be Original Sin, Baptism, Incarnation of the Word of God, Transfiguration, Passion, Resurrection-Decent-Ascent, also with all this is Matthew 27:52-52 and its cross-reference. Then how this is reconciled with the Dormition-Assumption.

I tend to make sure mine has this continuity, be it I may venture off the beaten path slightly. Very slightly…special favor/mortality-immortality.
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If they didn’t die I don’t see how they could’ve gotten into heaven.

Are we required to believe they didn’t die?
 
What does it mean for them to have gone to the bosom of Abraham?
 
Faith1960 said:
If they didn’t die I don’t see how they could’ve gotten into heaven.

Are we, required to believe they didn’t die?
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They couldn’t, the Passion would have been applied to them by grace/sanctification at some point.

Their being taken, or death I imagine will remain a topic of conversation, I don’t see much stated on this specific point.
 
AmbroseSJ said:
Your basing your assumptions on faulty Scripture exegesis rather than on Church doctrine.
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I just read,your posts on the Enoch v Mary thread, (or was it called Elijah v Mary thread?). Anyway, I agree with you but wonder if we’re,allowed to believe that E&E died, rather than be taken to Heaven, , purgatory, Abrahams bosom or wherever else, alive and well, living out these thousands of years?
 
That they went to Heaven or Abrahams bosom makes no sense if the did so in their bodies, rather than just their souls.
Also, 10 years after Elijah was translated, he wrote a letter…yay wouldn’t have done so from Heaven or Abrahams bosom. :confused:
 
Faith1960 said:
If they didn’t die I don’t see how they could’ve gotten into heaven.

Are we required to believe they didn’t die?
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We are not required to believe they did or didn’t die. We are allowed to believe either way.
Just as with Mary, we are required to believe she was assumed into Heaven but are not required to believe she died or did not die first.

Enoch and Elijah, just like Mary, are in Heaven.
However, as the gates of Heaven were only opened after the death and resurrection of Christ Enoch and Elijah would have been in the Bosom of Abraham until Christ opened the gates of Heaven and took them in.
 
thistle said:
We are not required to believe they did or didn’t die. We are allowed to believe either way.
Just as with Mary, we are required to believe she was assumed into Heaven but are not required to believe she died or did not die first.

Enoch and Elijah, just like Mary, are in Heaven.
However, as the gates of Heaven were only opened after the death and resurrection of Christ Enoch and Elijah would have been in the Bosom of Abraham until Christ opened the gates of Heaven and took them in.
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Would their bodies be in the Bosom of Abraham or their souls?
 
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