Enoch, Elijah and Moses

[jcrichton]

Tonight my priest talked about Enoch, Elijah and Moses. How can they be in Heaven when they weren’t glorified? Are they just in their earthly bodies flying around in space for thousands of years or…
I’ve posted about this before long ago and didn’t receive a satisfactory answer.
I did then, at the time find an online article in Our Sunday Visitor by the late Fr. Ray Ryland J.D. who said Enoch and Elijah did not go to Gods dwelling place. He said Enoch died and that God had removed Elijah to another place where he eventually died.

Hi, Faith!

…I think that part of the problem we have is that we delve into things that are out of our reach (like that unattainable and unrequited love thing)… what do we Know about Heaven? What do we Know about God?

We only Know what are finite understanding is able to assimilate from what God has Revealed… everything else is a mystery; though many “scholars” and “theologians” do their best to extrapolate the “real meaning of things.”

Those geniuses that killed off Enoch and Elijah did so because that is what their understanding allows them to comprehend… they do not see their position as limiting God; ditto those who place Enoch and Elijah in some sort of limbo or special but “removed from God’s Presence” place…

In both cases Scriptures tells us that they were taken up by God to Be with God–done deal!

Does that mean that they have been in Heaven ever since the events took place, even though the Word had not been Incarnate?

Hey, that’s up to God. Scriptures do not Limit God’s Omniscience or Omnipotence!

…yet, Scriptures do give us hints about the Divine Workings… after Creation it is said that God saw that it was Good and He Rested… so God Rested on the seventh cycle/period… yet, Jesus Reveals that He Works because He does what He sees His Father do… and since His Father is Working… He Works!

Scriptures tell us that we have been predestined to Salvation, Elected by God Himself to be Christ’s coheirs, before the Creation of the world… but wait, didn’t it take the Word a few thousand years to Incarnate as Christ? …so how can this be?

…well we have a few more hints… the Name God Gave to Moses was YHWH (Yahweh) I AM WHO AM–this Reveals that Yahweh God is Omnipresent…

…and Jesus, when pushed, Reveals that God is the God of the Living not the dead… so those who died in Him (in Fellowship with God) as Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are Alive to God…

…then we take Jesus Revelation about Who He is: "I AM the Resurrection and the Life, He who Believes in Me will not die.’

So Jesus (the God that Saves) being the Resurrection and the Life, existing from the Beginning and holding Salvation of man in Him, His Blood, even before the Creation of the world, could He not have brought into Heaven Enoch and Elijah? Is there a “rule” that binds God or is it our understanding of God that binds us?

Maran atha!

Agnel

 

[Faith1960]

Is Moses in the same places as Elijah and Enoch?

 

[1ke]

Is Moses in the same places as Elijah and Enoch?

We do not know.

 

[Faith1960]

We do not know.

Could all three of them currently be in another dimension?

 

[Faith1960]

Could all three of them currently be in another dimension?

Anyone?

 

[Vico]

Anyone?

Catholic Answers (Yes, Enoch and Elijah went to heaven) by Jimmy Akin
March 03, 2015

In Enoch’s case, Genesis 5:24 says that God “took” him, but doesn’t say where. Sirach 44:16 and 49:14 make it clear that he was taken up from the earth, and Hebrews 11:5 adds “so that he should not see death.”

In Elijah’s case, 2 Kings 2:11 states that “Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.” First Maccabees 2:58 adds, “Elijah because of great zeal for the Law was taken up into heaven.”

Both 2 Kings and 1 Maccabees both use the ordinary Hebrew and Greek words for “heaven” (shamayim and ouranos, respectively)—indicating that heaven was where they went.

Recently I was rereading St. John Paul II’s general audience on heaven and noticed that he also acknowledged this:

The depiction of heaven as the transcendent dwelling-place of the living God is joined with that of the place to which believers, through grace, can also ascend, as we see in the Old Testament accounts of Enoch (cf. Gn 5:24) and Elijah (cf. 2 Kgs 2:11) [General Audience, July 21, 1999].

It thus seems that John Paul II—who is now himself in heaven—acknowledged the exceptional nature of Enoch and Elijah’s admission to that blessed realm.

catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/yes-enoch-and-elijah-went-to-heaven

EWTN (Elijah and Moses in Heaven before our redemption?) by James Akin
January 3, 2002

Moses’ case is harder to determine, however there are hints that after his death his body was taken to heaven, where it was likely reunited with his soul. In that case, Moses too would be an exception to the rule.

ewtn.com/v/experts/showmessage.asp?number=322409&Pg=&Pgnu=&recnu=

 

[Faith1960]

Catholic Answers (Yes, Enoch and Elijah went to heaven) by Jimmy Akin
March 03, 2015

In Enoch’s case, Genesis 5:24 says that God “took” him, but doesn’t say where. Sirach 44:16 and 49:14 make it clear that he was taken up from the earth, and Hebrews 11:5 adds “so that he should not see death.”

In Elijah’s case, 2 Kings 2:11 states that “Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.” First Maccabees 2:58 adds, “Elijah because of great zeal for the Law was taken up into heaven.”

Both 2 Kings and 1 Maccabees both use the ordinary Hebrew and Greek words for “heaven” (shamayim and ouranos, respectively)—indicating that heaven was where they went.

Recently I was rereading St. John Paul II’s general audience on heaven and noticed that he also acknowledged this:

The depiction of heaven as the transcendent dwelling-place of the living God is joined with that of the place to which believers, through grace, can also ascend, as we see in the Old Testament accounts of Enoch (cf. Gn 5:24) and Elijah (cf. 2 Kgs 2:11) [General Audience, July 21, 1999].

It thus seems that John Paul II—who is now himself in heaven—acknowledged the exceptional nature of Enoch and Elijah’s admission to that blessed realm.

catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/yes-enoch-and-elijah-went-to-heaven

EWTN (Elijah and Moses in Heaven before our redemption?) by James Akin
January 3, 2002

Moses’ case is harder to determine, however there are hints that after his death his body was taken to heaven, where it was likely reunited with his soul. In that case, Moses too would be an exception to the rule.

ewtn.com/v/experts/showmessage.asp?number=322409&Pg=&Pgnu=&recnu=

My priest said that they didn’t go to heaven, but, instead, went to a place “like Eden” but not Eden.

 

[1ke]

My priest said that they didn’t go to heaven, but, instead, went to a place “like Eden” but not Eden.

And again;

We do not know. We do not know. We do not know.

Anyone who says they are in place X, Y, or Z is giving an opinion-- some more informed than others.

 

[1ke]

Could all three of them currently be in another dimension?

Faith it is completely pointless to speculate. We simply do not know.

Let me ask you: Why is this so important to you to the point you are obsessing on it?

 

[Vico]

My priest said that they didn’t go to heaven, but, instead, went to a place “like Eden” but not Eden.

1 Cor 15
50 This I declare, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery. We shall not all fall asleep, but we will all be changed, 52 in an instant, in the blink of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.