Ensoulment - what about twins?

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Perhaps is is possible that God creates another soul then? And actually, if a human is cloned from an adult, you would have to assume that that is what happens then, and in the case of an adult, if the clone is capable of rational activity. If cloning a human is even merely possible, then it seems this event in the mother’s womb does not provide any real proof that a human soul cannot exist from conception.
 
puzzleannie said:
yes I agree it would seem obvious, but biological science has not established when in the process of the union of the egg and sperm and beginning of cell division and implantation a unique living organism exists, so science must assume the earliest possible moment until proven otherwise, and the Church must follow that lead. just worked through this issue for a class on the soul with my pastor so it sticks in my mind.
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My question is if scientists are even really seeing the earliest moment.

We are definitely in unchartered territory. Very exciting! 👍
 
hasikelee said:
Abortion is deliberately killing a pre-born human and, if applicable, removing the dead body.

I think you are referring to miscarriage, which is the death of a pre-born human for unknown or undesired reasons.
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The word abortion in the scientific world refers to any loss of an embryo/zygote, intentional or not. The lay term, miscarriage is used for a spontaneous abortion, which as the term implies, occurs naturally. An abortion in progress is sometimes called an inevitable abortion and may also be a natural process.

Semantics, yes, but important to avoid confusion about those who have such words in their diagnoses: past or present.
 
seekerz said:
The word abortion in the scientific world refers to any loss of an embryo/zygote, intentional or not. The lay term, miscarriage is used for a spontaneous abortion, which as the term implies, occurs naturally. An abortion in progress is sometimes called an inevitable abortion and may also be a natural process.

Semantics, yes, but important to avoid confusion about those who have such words in their diagnoses: past or present.
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Thank you for clarifying, I was just about to do so as well. Many women have been unnecessarily upset by having the word abortion related to their sad condition of losing a child, not understanding that it is a standard medical term for what we typically call a miscarriage.
 
seekerz said:
The word abortion in the scientific world refers to any loss of an embryo/zygote, intentional or not. The lay term, miscarriage is used for a spontaneous abortion, which as the term implies, occurs naturally. An abortion in progress is sometimes called an inevitable abortion and may also be a natural process.

Semantics, yes, but important to avoid confusion about those who have such words in their diagnoses: past or present.
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Actually, it refers not only to the developing human, but also to the placenta and membranes. I didn’t think the poster was posting in a medical context and so did not include the medical definition.
 
JimG said:
Well, implantation has no effect on the genetics of the embryo. Fertilization is not an instantaneous event; however, by the time the first cell division occurs, the zygote already has a unique DNA, and is embarked on a process of embryogenesis. It is a ‘unique living organism.’ To place a demarcation line somewhere further down the road must rely on something other than or in addition to, being a unique living organism.
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To view a parallel sort of situation, one might as well ask exactly when marriage occurs. Obviously at the beginning of the ceremony the two are not married, and at the end they are. But marriage is a sacrament the bride and groom give to each other, and they don’t say their vows at the same exact moment, so at what point during the ceremony do they cross the line?

Just thinking about it and trying to pin down the exact moment is enough to be maddening. :rolleyes:
 
When I first came across this question, of an embryo splitting into twins, in a philosophy journal, I saw that this might be a serious problem for the pro-life position.
But still, what if a clone is made from you or me? Will this mean that we are not human beings?
 
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