Entering the priesthood

[Mikaele]

If an Eastern Catholic wanted to join a seminary in the Latin rite, would he have to wait a few years to change rites? or is he permitted to go straight into that rite of the Church? (and vice versa)

And is it different for celibate men as opposed to married men going to the Eastern Rite, or going as a permanent deacon in the West? (I’m guessing it would be.)

Hope my question isn’t confusing.

 

[Aramis]

It’s happened both directions and in various ways.

A Dominican Friar, Brother Norbert, was to be ordained a deacon, when it was discovered he was canonically Byzantine. I met him some years later. He wore the Byzantine Vesture, albeit simplified in material as befits Dominican Aesthetics (subtle but exquisite, being my experience), when assigned as deacon to Holy Family Cathedral. He said he was ordained a Byzantine Deacon, but granted biritual faculties.

Another, a Roman, Rev. Fr. Steven, was a canonical Roman. He had to delay his diaconal ordination (in the ByzCath Metropolia of Pittsburgh) until his transfer could be processed.

Each case is unique. Unfortunately, by some views.

 

[ciero]

If an Eastern Catholic wanted to join a seminary in the Latin rite, would he have to wait a few years to change rites? or is he permitted to go straight into that rite of the Church? (and vice versa)

And is it different for celibate men as opposed to married men going to the Eastern Rite, or going as a permanent deacon in the West? (I’m guessing it would be.)

Hope my question isn’t confusing.

Although it may be permitted it is rare and usualy forbidded by Rome for a married Latin Catholic man to become Byzantine then to be ordained. Most change of Ritual church papers coming from Rome have been noted the the person can change churches but may NOT be ordained.

 

[5Loaves]

If an Eastern Catholic wanted to join a seminary in the Latin rite, would he have to wait a few years to change rites? or is he permitted to go straight into that rite of the Church? (and vice versa)

(We are members of Churches, not of rites. ) Changing one’s Church sui iuris from an Eastern Catholic Church to the Latin Church is very strongly discouraged, to put it mildly.

It’s not unusual for canonically Eastern Catholic men studying for the priesthood to be in Schools or Seminaries of the Latin Church, sometimes in Orthodox Seminaries. sometimes in EC seminaries, or some combination of those. They are ordained to the priesthood of their Eastern Church sui iuris, and can be granted biritual faculties for serving in a Latin Church. We currently have a Hierodeacon who is canonically Ukrainian and is a Dominican Brother. When he is ordained to the priesthood he will be granted biritual faculties so he can also serve in a Latin Church.

And is it different for celibate men as opposed to married men going to the Eastern Rite, or going as a permanent deacon in the West? (I’m guessing it would be.)

Hope my question isn’t confusing.

I’m not clear what you are asking but any Latin Catholic who feels drawn to an Eastern Catholic Church may ask for a change in Church sui iuris. As you seem to indicate it would be after at least several years as an active member of the Eastern Church parish that a request would be considered.

The role of a deacon in the Eastern Churches is quite different from that of a permanent deacon in the Latin Church.

Do you mean could a married Latin Catholic man seek to change his Church sui iuris to an Eastern Church and expect that ordination to the priesthood would be an option? I’m not sure there is actual Canon Law forbidding it, Canon Law forbidding it isn’t necessary, as ciero response indicates. I wouldn’t be surprised if such an expectation/hope might delay or prevent the request for a change in Churches going through.

Your question was confusing to me so my response may not be answering it.

There’s some hint that your post involves a man who is struggling with a sense that he is called to both the priesthood and to marriage. He wouldn’t be the first Latin Catholic to have this struggle. In this day and age I imagine the vocations directors in seminaries are expected to have some skills in helping men deal with these challenges. I would suggest a married permanent deacon who is a Latin Catholic talk with a vocations director to seek help with such a situation if his current spiritual father hasn’t been helpful.

Being an Eastern Catholic doesn’t necessarily resolve the sense one feels called to both. Times have changed, at least in many countries, from when marriage happened at quite a young age. It’s not unheard of for an Eastern or Oriental Catholic young man to feel a strong pull to the priesthood and to marriage but he’s not even yet got a woman he’s in love with-- that’s still in the future. I’ve known a few EC/OC young men who felt deeply frustrated with this. Also, since the the ordination of married men to the priesthood was suspended for a period of time in the US other issues come up now that it is again permitted for married men to be ordained as EC/OC priests. I thought Fr Loya had some interesting insights about this-- himself having been ordained in the period when married men could not be-- on his February 16, 2010 program. Scroll down to “#281: Married?”

 

[Young_Thinker]

Although it may be permitted it is rare and usualy forbidded by Rome for a married Latin Catholic man to become Byzantine then to be ordained. Most change of Ritual church papers coming from Rome have been noted the the person can change churches but may NOT be ordained.

But is not that really because marriage after ordination in the Byzantine Rite is not allowed?

 

[Stephentlig]

Why is it that all Latin Catholics seem to try and use the EC rite as a way to be Married and Ordained Priest? I mean, I find the Latin rites discipline amazing and the most effective. Most people think that if they come talk to a Priest who is Married that they have something in common, but does this mean that the celibate Priest does not have anything in common? did he not have a Mother and Father? brothers and sisters? and grow up with them and experience the family life? of course he did, so this excuse that Priests should be Married so we can talk to them about our own married life and that they’ll understand is a load of rubbish if you ask me.

I feel more comfortable with a Celibate Priest when it comes to consultation about any problem I have because I’m confident that he has given his entire life ( poverty chastity and obedience ) to Christ, which gives him more time to study and focus on the Lord and makes him more spiritual.

Pax Christi
Stephen

 

[HumbleDeist]

If I were to enter the priesthood could I marry a wolf?

 

[RPV2017]

If I were to enter the priesthood could I marry a wolf?

Then you would be a wolf in sheeps clothing.

St.Paul’s point of being single was to stress that in order to be dedicated to the mission of making disciples of all nations; there would be no time for wife and children.

The apostles left everything and all were martyred (save John).

The answer to a call from above to become a priest, should be your first indication that you need to be focused to the task at hand. Saving souls…after all the call is coming to you from above.

If you are applying for a job as a priest and want to be married, I think you need to seek another occupation.

 

[Aramis]

Our new subdeacon is a former Roman Rite Catholic. Eventually, he’ll be ordained a deacon. Rome has specifically not been interfering lately. But it’s not something quick; the current requirements in the BC Metropolia of Pittsburg is several years of praxis after change of ritual enrollment before applying for the diaconate. Let alone the priesthood.

 

[5Loaves]

If you are applying for a job as a priest and want to be married, I think you need to seek another occupation.

Neither the priesthood, nor marriage are occupations…
An Eastern/Oriental Catholic may be called to both vocations.

 

[Hesychios]

If you are applying for a job as a priest and want to be married, I think you need to seek another occupation.

Or wait until after the marriage ceremony before taking ordination.

It is not unheard of for candidates to wait. Orthodox bishops will not ordain a man until he is married, unless the person is already an avowed celibate monastic. So often these men do pursue an occupation, until they have settled into their marriage.

Now that marriage in some of the eastern Catholic churches is again possible we might see (in the future if not already) this way of bishops handling it there too, and dating while in seminary will not be regarded as a bad thing any more.

 

[Mikaele]

I don’t know much, but do Eastern Church’ have seminaries for men wanting to be celibate priests? or do you just join a monastery? and what about a man wanting to become a celibate priest from the Western Church going into an Eastern monastery or seminary, is that unheard of? what’s the process for all of these things?

 

[Aramis]

I don’t know much, but do Eastern Church’ have seminaries for men wanting to be celibate priests? or do you just join a monastery? and what about a man wanting to become a celibate priest from the Western Church going into an Eastern monastery or seminary, is that unheard of? what’s the process for all of these things?

It’s not unheard of; Of my last 5 Ruthenian pastors, one was a former Roman, and one’s a former Protestant, and is biritual, Byzantine having been granted Roman Faculties. (Protestants in those churches with eucharistic praxis are properly Roman Rite, but it’s not made an issue of if they would rather be received into an EC church.) One was a Roman with Byzantine faculties, and another was cradle Byzantine with Roman faculties. The other I’m not certain, but he’s Byzantine and monastic.

It does require individual discernment with the pastor, the bishop, and the vocations director. And sometimes, Rome and/or the Patriarch of the particular EC Church.

 

[Hesychios]

I don’t know much, but do Eastern Church’ have seminaries for men wanting to be celibate priests? or do you just join a monastery?

In Orthodoxy a celibate is usually going to be considered a monastic, even if he gets assigned to a parish.

The Eastern Catholic churches in the diaspora have been overwhelmingly celibate for decades. It is still common for the candidates to choose a celibate life as a parish priest. On the other hand there aren’t many monasteries.

… and what about a man wanting to become a celibate priest from the Western Church going into an Eastern monastery or seminary, is that unheard of? what’s the process for all of these things?

I think Aramis covered this point very well. Each case is handled individually, it’s a spiritual journey.

I suspect that if a Latin Catholic man wanted to join an Eastern Catholic monastery he would be welcomed warmly.

BTW, it is my understanding that Father Abbot Nicholas of Holy Resurrection Greek Catholic monastery in California is originally from Australia. It is not exactly clear to me that he was always an Eastern Catholic, I am curious to find out more about his spiritual journey.

 

[Aramis]

I don’t know much, but do Eastern Church’ have seminaries for men wanting to be celibate priests? or do you just join a monastery? and what about a man wanting to become a celibate priest from the Western Church going into an Eastern monastery or seminary, is that unheard of? what’s the process for all of these things?

A man feeling called to the priesthood would be turned away from most catholic monasteries, and some Eastern Orthodox ones. In fact, I know several who have been; plus one EO from an EO monastery, the rest Romans from Roman religious communities.

Monastics become priests and deacons (hieromonks and hierodeacons) because the community needs one, not because they entered in hopes of being ordained. (This is true in the west as well, except for certain religious orders who have only clerics.)

While being willing is a prerequisite for ordination, submission to authority is the first and most important part of monasticism. A monastic gives up many rights for the freedom to live immersed in prayer and service. But in choosing that, they also must accept that they are to serve when called, not when they desire.

 

[5Loaves]

BTW, it is my understanding that Father Abbot Nicholas of Holy Resurrection Greek Catholic monastery in California is originally from Australia. It is not exactly clear to me that he was always an Eastern Catholic, I am curious to find out more about his spiritual journey.

I do believe Father Abbot Nicholas and Father Maximos are both from Australia. Take a listen (I’m pretty sure it came up in conversation with Fr Maximos as well.) I think Fr Abbot Nicholas’ family is from Greece originally.

You may know that Holy Resurrection Monastery is now located at the site of a Benedictine community. The St. Andrew’s Abbey offered HRM the opportunity to share their property when HRM’s plans to relocate from Newberry Springs, CA to the US East Coast fell through. It was such an interesting turn of events for a monastery that had already decided to "throw ourselves wholeheartedly into the work of ‘spiritual ecumenism’ ".

 

[Hesychios]

You may know that Holy Resurrection Monastery is now located at the site of a Benedictine community. The St. Andrew’s Abbey offered HRM the opportunity to share their property when HRM’s plans to relocate from Newberry Springs, CA to the US East Coast fell through. It was such an interesting turn of events for a monastery that had already decided to "throw ourselves wholeheartedly into the work of ‘spiritual ecumenism’ ".

So they have left Newberry Springs? Perhaps the move in with the Benedictines is providential.

This reminds me of Saint Procopius Abbey in Lisle Illinois, where I was once an oblate.

Saint Procopius Abbey (named after a Greek Catholic monastic from Bohemia) had once been a refuge for Byzantine-Slavonic rite monks (mostly from Belarus and Russia, I think) fleeing the Bolsheviks, and also wound up becoming the seminary for the Ruthenian Metropolia (until the 1950’s), and thus all of this resident expertise came in handy. They had divided the cloister into two sections for many years. Most of the older priestmonks (all Latin Catholics these days) still possess bi-ritual faculties both with the Ruthenians and the Ukrainians, but seldom use them any more.

Bishop Tarasevich lived with them in Lisle. I never met him but he was associated with Christ the Redeemer mission in Chicago, the little place where I was first exposed to Byzantine Catholicism.

 

[Stephentlig]

A man feeling called to the priesthood would be turned away from most catholic monasteries, and some Eastern Orthodox ones. In fact, I know several who have been; plus one EO from an EO monastery, the rest Romans from Roman religious communities.

Monastics become priests and deacons (hieromonks and hierodeacons) because the community needs one, not because they entered in hopes of being ordained. (This is true in the west as well, except for certain religious orders who have only clerics.)

While being willing is a prerequisite for ordination, submission to authority is the first and most important part of monasticism. A monastic gives up many rights for the freedom to live immersed in prayer and service. But in choosing that, they also must accept that they are to serve when called, not when they desire.

When I was in the cistercian community it was up to the Abbot to decide if you were called to the Priesthood and he would discuss it with you, although ultimately you had the choice.

Cant understand people trying to bend the rules to they can become priests, but St.Ignatius was refused everywhere he went and his desire to follow his vocation meant that the Lord managed some how to squeeze his uneducated and unwanted self into one of the most prestigious universities in France.

He then became the founder of the most educated order in the Church, the Jesuits, Priests and Knights of the Pope. so the Lord does get them in if he really wants them there.

Deciding vocations is difficult IMO.

Pax Christi
Stephen <3

 

[malphono]

… the most educated order in the Church, the Jesuits,

Somehow I have the feeling that the Dominicans (first & foremost among others) might not be in full agreement.

 

[Stephentlig]

Somehow I have the feeling that the Dominicans (first & foremost among others) might not be in full agreement.

Somehow I dont think the Jesuits would be in full agreement that they themselves are the most educated order either :yukonjoe:

Edit: for if they did admit that they are the most educated order then they’d surely lose their status