Environment for children?

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LilyRose_8891

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I am an observer of these situations, and I’d like opinions on the following scenarios:

Background: Family of 4 gets along, supports each other, and does fun things together. Parents say, “I love you,” to each other and the children. Parents are protective of the children, and they tell the children that the children are their (the parents’ #1 priority). No financial troubles. The following things are observed about 45% of the time.

1.) Teenage child says, “I sometimes don’t want to live anymore…” Mother responds, “Well, there are a lot of unpleasant things in life, so you better start toughening up.”

2.) Younger child is serious by nature. Child smiles and laughs when playing. Child’s default is to have a serious expression on face. Parent says to child, “You don’t seem very happy. There’s just nothing to be happy about, is there?” (Sarcasm.)

3.) Parents yell loudly, argue, use put-downs toward each other in front of child. Child becomes upset, cries, and is angry. Parents reprimand child for being upset about their arguing, saying it is normal for married couples to argue. Later, child is grumpy and angry about parents’ arguing and parents further reprimand child saying, “You are always expecting life to be perfect! LIFE ISN’T PERFECT! Do you honestly think there is a marriage that is perfect? You need to realize people argue and life isn’t perfect!”

4.) Parents reprimand children for not always being cheerful and perky. Parents tell children to be cheerful all the time because their lack of perkiness is offensive to the parents.

5.) Teenage child tells parents the parents’ behavior is offensive to the teenager and younger sibling. Parents say, “We provide for you and do so much for you and try to make things nice for you! We do not appreciate you telling us we are offensive! What about all the things you do that are offensive?”

Opinions?
 
Grossly immature parents with very poor parenting skills. Not too mention serious neglect of the teenager who is crying out for help and at risk for suicide.

The beginning description of the parents does not match the description in the examples. How are these parents “protective”? They arguing is so bad it puts their children in great distress. That is not protective. How are these children a priority when their feelings are dismissed?
 
I would say normal but most parents have poor parenting skills so just…too bad for the kids but there is not much you can do about any sort of abuse if it is not physical.
 
I think that’s all pretty average, aside from the teenager. The teenager definitely needs more, and you shouldn’t feel at all bad about “interfering” on the teenager’s behalf, as if they actually acted on their threats, you’d all feel terrible about not having done more.
 
rayne89 said:
Grossly immature parents with very poor parenting skills. Not too mention serious neglect of the teenager who is crying out for help and at risk for suicide.

The beginning description of the parents does not match the description in the examples. How are these parents “protective”? They arguing is so bad it puts their children in great distress. That is not protective. How are these children a priority when their feelings are dismissed?
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Well stated. This is emotional/psychological abuse and neglect.
 
You guys are saying THIS is normal and average?!? How awful! 😦
 
Prodigal_Son said:

“You guys are saying THIS is normal and average?!? How awful!”

C+ is average. (Or it used to be, before grade inflation.)

We’ve seen a detailed review of these parents’ worst behavior. If somebody were studying you and doing a summary of your worst behavior, you’d look pretty bad, too. Remember what the OP said at the beginning of the post:

“Family of 4 gets along, supports each other, and does fun things together. Parents say, “I love you,” to each other and the children. Parents are protective of the children, and they tell the children that the children are their (the parents’ #1 priority). No financial troubles. The following things are observed about 45% of the time.”

That’s pretty darn good. I don’t like the bit about telling the kids that they are their parents’ #1 priority because I think that’s way too much pressure on the kids (as well as being a both untrue and braggy), but aside from that, it sounds pretty solid. I’d rate them as more thoughtless and immature than evil.

The teenager definitely needs some extra attention.
 
I’m happy to say that I rarely run across parents who are that immature and self-centered in their interpretation of the emotional lives of their children. In what way are they “protective”?

Having said that, I also have to wonder who is asking the question. The usual best tack with failing parents is to find ways to be positive, particularly with people as likely to respond in a defensive manner as this pair. With the teen, for instance, the task of questioning how expressing thoughts about death ought to be handled very delicately, lest the teen suffer more sarcasm as a result. “First, do no harm” is the key.

If you see an opening to question the 45% of the time, OP, lean very heavily on the positives you see the majority of the time. If the children come to you, you also have to be careful to balance highlighting the positive without discounting the real issue of the negative. Try to help them find different options with those issues, such as leaving the room when their parents argue in order to “give them privacy” in which to have these “heated discussions”. If “don’t argue” doesn’t work, the kids might try “time out! We’d rather be elsewhere for this! Give us ten seconds go make ourselves scarce. Call us when you’re done…”
 
EasterJoy said:

“I’m happy to say that I rarely run across parents who are that immature and self-centered in their interpretation of the emotional lives of their children. In what way are they “protective”?”

Presumably with regard to outsiders, which is something.

Speaking of “protective”, try googling “dad punches coach” or “altercation at little league” for examples of how parents who think of themselves as protective and involved can take a wrong turn.

We’re living in a country where around 40% of children are born outside wedlock (with much worse numbers in certain demographics–young mothers, Latina mothers, and black mothers have even higher rates of out-of-wedlock childbearing). At this point, just being married is almost enough to make you an above average parent.

cbsnews.com/news/almost-half-of-first-babies-in-us-born-to-unwed-mothers/

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2103235/Most-children-U-S-born-wedlock.html

That’s unfortunate, but that’s how it is.
 
Many have asked, “In what way are they protective?”

The father is very nervous about the teenager having a drivers license and being on the road. His rule is that the teenager must carry a cell phone when driving. When the teenager arrives at their destination (even if it is a five minute drive from home) the teenager must call to let the parents know of their safe arrival. When it is time to come home, the teenager must call to tell the parents they are leaving.

As far as being the #1 priority, the mother has said to her children on more than one occasion, “You are my life. If anything happened to you, I may as well die too.” She has also told them she would gladly take a bullet for them, and there is generally nothing she will not do for them.
 
This is in regard to the first post. It’s unfortunate that some consider this normal… I could agree if normal means common, but it shouldn’t be seen as healthy or even acceptable.

I suppose I’m biased since it sounds a lot like my family. I tend to see my family as very loving and supportive, but seriously, if I’m honest with myself, we’re a dysfunctional family. People can say they love each other all they want, but it doesn’t make their actions loving. They may not intend to be harmful, but their behaviors still hurt others.

I’m sorry I don’t have any practical advice. It’s extremely difficult seeing children in that situation and not being able to help. You and the family will be in my prayers. 😦

As for the protective behavior OP described, it seems reasonable with me for the most part. 5 minutes does seem to be too much to be worried about, but it could be that the parents are just nervous about their first child * learning to drive [which happens to many parents]. However, if these things are combined with manipulation to make others feel guilty or if their “concern” for their children is used to justify more controlling behavior, it is a big problem.*
 
LilyRose_8891 said:

“The father is very nervous about the teenager having a drivers license and being on the road. His rule is that the teenager must carry a cell phone when driving. When the teenager arrives at their destination (even if it is a five minute drive from home) the teenager must call to let the parents know of their safe arrival. When it is time to come home, the teenager must call to tell the parents they are leaving.”

That sounds very sensible.

“She has also told them she would gladly take a bullet for them, and there is generally nothing she will not do for them.”

Except listen to them.

I don’t like that kind of talk, because it sounds very Mommie Dearest.

It does give you an avenue of approach, though. “You know, Suzanne, how you’re always saying that there is nothing you won’t do for your kids and how you’d gladly take a bullet for them? Well, I’m worried about Teenager. I think Teenager is very unhappy and he/she needs to start seeing a therapist and maybe do an evaluation for depression.” And come to that conversation supplied with an internet checklist of depressive or suicidal symptoms in adolescents and the name of a good child psychologist specializing in teenagers.

That’s such a worrisome situation that I think some nagging (i.e. checking in with them regularly until they follow through) is in order. The other stuff can be left for later, because it’s probably less urgent.

I think these people love their kids a lot, but don’t understand them.
 
LilyRose_8891 said:
I am an observer of these situations, and I’d like opinions on the following scenarios:

Background: Family of 4 gets along, supports each other, and does fun things together. Parents say, “I love you,” to each other and the children. Parents are protective of the children, and they tell the children that the children are their (the parents’ #1 priority). No financial troubles. The following things are observed about 45% of the time.

1.) Teenage child says, “I sometimes don’t want to live anymore…” Mother responds, “Well, there are a lot of unpleasant things in life, so you better start toughening up.”

2.) Younger child is serious by nature. Child smiles and laughs when playing. Child’s default is to have a serious expression on face. Parent says to child, “You don’t seem very happy. There’s just nothing to be happy about, is there?” (Sarcasm.)

3.) Parents yell loudly, argue, use put-downs toward each other in front of child. Child becomes upset, cries, and is angry. Parents reprimand child for being upset about their arguing, saying it is normal for married couples to argue. Later, child is grumpy and angry about parents’ arguing and parents further reprimand child saying, “You are always expecting life to be perfect! LIFE ISN’T PERFECT! Do you honestly think there is a marriage that is perfect? You need to realize people argue and life isn’t perfect!”

4.) Parents reprimand children for not always being cheerful and perky. Parents tell children to be cheerful all the time because their lack of perkiness is offensive to the parents.

5.) Teenage child tells parents the parents’ behavior is offensive to the teenager and younger sibling. Parents say, “We provide for you and do so much for you and try to make things nice for you! We do not appreciate you telling us we are offensive! What about all the things you do that are offensive?”

Opinions?
Click to expand...
I’m going to respond by the number:
  1. Teenager definitely needs some attention. Parents should find out what is troubling the teen.
  2. It sounds like parent is making child feel wrong for having a serious nature. Not good.
  3. Normal for parents to argue sometimes but they shouldn’t be putting each other down in front of the child. Child shouldn’t be reprimanded for being upset about the arguing.
  4. This is b.s. Children should be able to be themselves, especially at home and not have to fake being cheerful. Wrong for parents to shame child by telling child it’s offensive to parents.
  5. Since we don’t know the context of this, it’s hard to comment on it. Maybe the parents are doing something inappropriate.
 
I am seriously disturbed by the first post. The second also disturbs me. I’ll tackle them separately.

First of all, ANY threat of suicide needs to be taken SERIOUSLY. It’s a common myth that people who talk about suicide don’t commit suicide. It’s also a common myth that you should not ask someone about thoughts of suicide because it will put the idea in that person’s head. Both are false. Many people who commit suicide discussed the issue previously. You cannot put something into someone’s head that they are not already thinking about. This teenager needs, at the very least, a serious sitdown with the parents - and possibly psychological help. (If the parents are reluctant to pursue medication, they should at the least have their teen meet with the family physician. Medication is not usually the first intervention for adolescents and children, simply because many antidepressants are associated with a greater risk of suicide in children and teenagers. Counselling may be helpful, and a thorough workup should be done first to rule out any physical causes for the depression.) Secondly, parents should not be having full-on arguments in front of the children. I admit, DH and I have argued in front of DSD, but we try to be careful to apologize to each other in front of her too. We explain to her that adults sometimes do have disagreements, but it is important for them to remember that they always love each other even though they disagree. I think there’s a place for respectful disagreement in front of kids so that they can learn how to resolve conflict, but serious arguments should, as a rule, be kept from children. In terms of the kids - the parents need to be realistic in what they expect from their children. It’s not “normal” to ignore feelings; children need to have healthy outlets to express them. To pretend that nothing is wrong is to bottle up hurts and fears - which can lead to serious physical and psychological problems later on. For the teenager, I agree that he/she has serious concerns, but I think there is a more respectful way of communicating them. It might be best for the teen to have a sitdown with the parents and present things in terms of “I” or “we” messages. “I (we) feel…when you do…” This tends to be a less threatening approach.

In terms of the second post - I think the dad is being a little overprotective requiring the kids to call when they’ve gone just 5 minutes away, but I don’t think carrying a cell phone is unreasonable. I have a concern with the mom telling the kids that she may as well die too if anything happened to them. You cannot make another person the ENTIRE focus of your life. Eventually, those children will grow up and start families of their own. Unfortunately, these types of mothers tend to be the grandmas who figure they have “rights” to their grandchildren and expect that they will be allowed to show up whenever they want and do whatever they want because, you know, it would just be inconceivable that your kids could have a life outside of you and there would be times when they are busy, and it would be inconceivable that your kids might have experiences (such as childbirth and parenting a newborn) where they would want to be on their own without your advice. Believe me - I’ve heard of many cases like this before.

I honestly think the whole family needs some serious counselling, particularly the teenager.
 
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