Like Trinitarian Christians such as Protestants.
Faithful Roman Catholics, according to Pope Benedict XIV in De Canonizatione, are not permitted to question the doctrine of Doctors of the Church, and therefore, you are not at liberty simply to dismiss St. Basil’s canons as being incorrect.Augustine defended Cyprian though he disagreed with him. All Cyprians works were read with a critical eye by Augustine. All of this is documented in Augustines books, all of which are listed in sequence in “Retractions” on pg 157. Along with all Cyprians letters and works including the “Council of Carthage” sure to be mentioned here also which Augustine read and used to defend the Saint.
Also here and in particular book 3 chapter 3, and books 1-5 “On Baptism” you begin to see how Augustine defends Cyprian while disagreeing him. Just as he would anyone else who came with a contrary teaching of the most holy Catholic Church while remaining in the Church Unity.
newadvent.org/fathers/1408.htm
So “no” cherry picked quotes by Basil and so forth, they simply will not do as they go under the same argument St Augustine provided for St Cyprian.
The Church is the final authority, and that is Augustine’s point with Cyprian, of which he was in “communion” with the Church. Same with Basil of which of course the Church would be the final authority in which he was in communion with.
Has the your Church condemned the canons of St. Basil the great? If not, then you as an individual are not at liberty to question their authority, as they were penned by a Doctor of the Church. Your idea literally turns the fathers into heretics, while the Orthodox understanding of oikonomia regarding the reception of converts shows that the fathers were not truly in disagreement at all, for they all denied that the sacraments of heretics contained any saving efficacy, only differing on the manner which they felt was most prudent to receive heretics into the Church, who had received the proper form of baptism.
Canons I, V, XX, and XLVII.
No one condemned anyone. I would have to condemn Cyprian, Augustine and a host of others. Truth is many had various views on various topics. That’s why the Church=Final authority and the Saints confirm. Including St Cyprian and St Basil. And of course the defender of orthodoxy the Great Doctor St Augustine. .
Yeah unlike us Catholics, who are not Trinitarian.
All good, I had to give him a hard time before the holiday. Too late now to carry on.
Seems to me if we were all calling ourselves simply Christian (or Catholic), that might indicate a greater level of unity than currently exists.I understood that part Jon, I’m just stating the obvious by admitting that there were other Christians, so I can’t imagine all these groups calling themselves Christians without there being confusion, i.e., there had to a be a qualifier to differentiate.
p.s. I am still going to respond to your post in the Protestants why aren’t you Catholic thread. Be prepared to have your mind blown.
There referred to the churches as Evangelical [evangelische], and never saw themselves as anything other than Catholic. They considered themselves evangelical and Catholic.
Well, I don’t have any trouble explaining it. I’m certainly not ashamed of it, or embarrassed by it. I personally think “Catholic of the Augsburg Confession”, or evangelical Catholic better expresses our beliefs, but in a way similar to the word protestant, it has become more a short-hand name.
That sort of thing’s always pretty tricky.
The Roman Catholic Church is nice now, but let’s not pretend that it became the biggest Church and the only Church for the longest time by the nicest means.
Does everyone in Orthodoxy claim that Roman Catholics are heretics, outside the Church and therefore their Baptisms aren’t valid? Sorry if I read that wrong.
This is really interesting reasoning, since the OP is a Protestant and the sale of indulgences, which funded St. Peter’s was a major objection which drove Luther to post his 95 theses against the RCC. Hmmm.
Not this Orthodox!