Eparchy/Diocese Creation

[fijiq48]

According to the papal bull of Pope St.Pius X “In Universi Christiani”, “The Arch-diocese of Kottayam spans not just the Kottayam district and surroundings, but the entire state of Kerala, throughout India, and also overseas.” The Knanaya parishes in the U.S are rightfully the Kottayam Metropolitans, but for some reason this line in the papal bull is always over looked…

 

[Aramis]

Like i said earlier the problem is not with Rome, it is with the Syro Malabar Church. Rome has no idea of the Knanaya Catholic longing for a diocese in the U.S. Because who is to tell them of this? Who is the only one who has the authority to tell Rome? Not Kottayam Metran, he has no right over his flock in the U.S. Not Mar Jacob Angadiath. Only Major Archbishop George Allencherry but even though the Knanayas have petitioned many times, Mar George Allencherry does not tell Rome that the faithful of the Knanaya Community want there own diocese in the U.S . Because once again, St.Thomas Syro Malabar diocese would loose 1/3 of its parishes.

Actually, Mar Jacob does have the authority and ability to do so - he, like every other bishop in union with Rome, save those incapable of travel - has a visit with the Pope every so often - IIRC, every 5 years - The Ad Limina visits. Every bishop and ordinary has access to the Pope - at least in writing - outside that, and a few minutes to make the needs of his diocese/eparchy know to the pope during the Ad Limina visit.

In theory, every Catholic has the right to address the Pope in writing. In practice, this should only be done when the intermediate stages have failed to address an issue.

Just because Rome hasn’t spoken about it doesn’t mean that the issue hasn’t been made known to the Pope. In the case of the Eastern Churches, the synods tend to be expected to present such as a unified case, which Rome then considers - not just the Pope, but also the council of the Eastern Churches.

Ref:
vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2012/may/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20120518_bishops-us-fourteen_en.html

 

[Peter_J]

According to the papal bull of Pope St.Pius X “In Universi Christiani”, “The Arch-diocese of Kottayam spans not just the Kottayam district and surroundings, but the entire state of Kerala, throughout India, and also overseas.”

Good point. I wasn’t aware of that.

 

[malphono]

According to the papal bull of Pope St.Pius X “In Universi Christiani”, “The Arch-diocese of Kottayam spans not just the Kottayam district and surroundings, but the entire state of Kerala, throughout India, and also overseas.” The Knanaya parishes in the U.S are rightfully the Kottayam Metropolitans, but for some reason this line in the papal bull is always over looked…

I’m not sure about that. The Motu Proprio, as reproduced here says:

Quare motu proprio, ex certa scientia ac de potestatis Nostrae plenitudine a duplici Vicariatu Apostolico Ernakulamensi et Changanacherensi omnes paroecias et Ecclesias- Suddisicas dismembramus easque in novum Vicariatum Apostolicum in urbe vulgo “Kottayam” pro gente Suddistica constituimus. Quis idcirco complectatur omnes Ecclesias et Sacella pertinentia ad Deccanatum Kottayamensem et Kaduthuruthensem in Vicariatu Apostolico Chenganacherensi una cum Ecclesiis Suddisticis Apostolici Vicariatus Ernakulamensis.

Therefore, by motu proprio, with sure knowledge and fullness of our power we separate all the Southist parishes and churches from the two Apostolic Vicariates of Ernakulam and Changanacherry and constitute them into a new Apostolic Vicariate in the town commonly known as “Kottayam” for the Southist people. On that account it shall include all the churches and chapels pertaining to the Kottayarn and Kaduthuruthy foranes in the Apostolic Vicariate of Changanacherry and also the Southist churches of the Apostolic Vicariate of Ernakulam.

Unless I’m missing something, I don’t see anything there covering Knanaya outside of present-day Kerala.

 

[mardukm]

Dear Fijiq48,

Its all just so unfair though, I don’t know if you’ve heard of this but back in the early 1900’s/ late 1800’s Syro Malabar diocese’ were erected and for the first time indigenous bishops were enthroned. One of these diocese’ was the diocese of Changanassery. The bishop appointed to this diocese was Mar Mathai Makil a Knanaya. After the Vatican appointed Mar Mathai there was an all out riot among the Syro Malabar Catholics in Changanassery because he was Knanaya and they could not have a Knanaya as the head of there diocese. The Syro Malabar Catholics pleaded to Rome to remove him and so they did. Later a Syro Malabar priest, Mar Thomas Kurialacherry was appointed as bishop of the diocese. Afterwords Mar Mathai went to Rome and protested for a diocese just for Knanaya Catholics and so Kottayam Diocese was created. Is this not like the situation in U.S? Shouldn’t we be able to have our own diocese here?

I think you made my point here. The Kottayam Diocese was created because a bishop appealed their case. You need a bishop to support your case to your Synod → Rome. Do you know of one who is sympathetic to the cause of the Knanaya?

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[fijiq48]

Thank you for the replies,

To Aramis-
Yes Mar Jacob does but i doubt he will, because that is not what the Syro Malabar Church wants. In any case Mar Jacob only made it worse for Knanaya Catholics in the U.S. He got it made official from the Vatican that endogamy may not be practiced in U.S Knanaya Parishes but of course our people do not follow that because according to Mar Papa Pius X and Mar Papa John Paul II, we have the right to follow endogamy. When the affairs of Kottayam Diocese were officially handed over to the Syro Malabar Church the pope had written “Now being in the care of the Syro Malabar church all traditions and customs of Kottayam must be maintained”. The past Knanaya Metropolitan, Mar Kuriakose Kunnacherry, had wrote a letter to Mar Papa John Paul II on the subject of a Knanaya Sui Juris in 2005 . (This was before Kottayam diocese was an Archdiocese) In reply the Mar Papa had written, “Lets forget about the Archdiocese and move towards a Sui Juris”. But along with his death this plan had demised and instead the Syro Malabar Church had granted us an Archdiocese.

To Malphno-
Supposedly that line had been in the papal bull, perhaps it was mentioned in something else? But thank you for the link, that cleared a few things up.

To Mardkum-
The bishop who should be guiding his people should be Metran Mar Mathew Moolakattu of Kottayam but for some reason he has never brought this up to the Synod but has spoken many times about it to his people. He has even brought up the topic of a separate Sui Juris for the Knanaya Catholics. All in all I believe Mar Mathew is just being loyal to his Major Archbishop which i believe is very noble but he must also think of what his people want even if it means defying what the Major Archbishop wants. If he is not loyal to his people than he should not have the title of Metran of the Knanaya Catholics. Many people have criticized Mar Mathew for not standing up for his people but I don’t see it that way. I think he is just being loyal to the greater church. He has some very big shoes to fill, the past Knanaya Metrans before him all had much pride and empathy to the diocese. Most cared more for the diocese than the Syro Malabar Church its self, for example Servant of God Mar Mathi Makil.

 

[malphono]

Oh and supposedly that line had been in the papal bull, perhaps it was mentioned in something else? But thank you for the link, that cleared a few things up.The bishop who should be guiding his people should be Metran Mar Mathew Moolakattu of Kottayam but for some reason he has never brought this up to the Synod but has spoken many times about it to his people. He has even brought up the topic of a separate Sui Juris to the Knanaya Catholics. All in all I believe Mar Mathew is just being loyal to his Major Archbishop which i believe is very noble but he must also think of what his people want even if it means defying what the Major Archbishop wants. If he is not loyal to his people than he should not have the title of Metran of the Knanaya Catholics. Many people have criticized Mar Mathew for not standing up for his people but I don’t see it in that way. I think he is just being loyal to the greater church. He has some very big shoes to fill, the past Knanaya Metrans before him all had much pride and empathy to the diocese. Most cared more for the diocese than the Syro Malabar Church its self.

Mar Mattai could, of course, bring the issue before the Synod, but in the end, even if the Synod were to agree (which, from the way I understand the situation, isn’t very likely anyway), it would still have to go to Rome for further consideration and possible action. Remember that the Synod has no direct jurisdiction over anything in the diaspora. And remember, too, that Kottayam really doesn’t even have formal claim to any such jurisdiction, so for the Metropolitan to directly involve himself with Rome could well be seen (by the Synod if not by Rome itself) as overstepping his bounds (aka meddling in the affairs of another diocese). Not a good situation for him, and I don’t doubt for a moment that he doesn’t want any part of it. Were I in his stead, I wouldn’t either.

Far, far easier is for the Knanaya in the US to approach the Local Ordinary in an organized way and ask to have a dedicated auxiliary bishop for the Knanaya. When such a petition is made to Rome by an Ordinary, it would most likely be granted with minimal, if any, difficulty or question.

 

[Hesychios]

Far, far easier is for the Knanaya in the US to approach the Local Ordinary in an organized way and ask to have a dedicated auxiliary bishop for the Knanaya. …

Something tells me that will never happen. Mar Jacob Angadiath would scream holy hell over poaching of his flock, and knowing this no Latin bishop would contemplate getting involved.

As I see it (I think) the Southists would have to be completely separated by Rome in India first, recognizing them as a Sui Iuris church. Then the diaspora of that church, unserved by a hierarchy of their own, could receive help from local ordinaries in new locations. If there are enough locations to warrant it, Rome might erect a new eparchy in the USA and separate the existing parishes and missions from the Eparchy of St Thomas at Chicago and from the other (presumably Latin) dioceses across the country which have sponsored them.

 

[fijiq48]

To Malphono-
You mean Mar Mathew : P, Mar Mathai died over a hundred years ago. I’m with you on the idea of a Auxillary bishop Malphono but the problem is that still wont be fair. In the eyes of the Knanaya Catholics that will just be another win for the Syro Malabar Catholics. They will see it as another step away from achieving our diocese. KCCNA our national congress made a pledge on arriving in America and that pledge is to attain a diocese for the Knanaya Catholics. See the thing is Knanayas want it to be equal and fair among us and the Syro Malabar Catholics.

What i don’t understand is why does St.Thomas diocese want 20 parishes that are not even loyal to the bishop of the diocese . A few years back our Metropolitan had come to our national convention to announce that he is not our bishop in the U.S only Mar Jacob is. Even after hearing that the people still pledge there loyalty to the Kottayam Metropolitan. The problem is Syro Malabar Catholics and Knanaya Catholics have been two separate communities for centuries who for the longest time didn’t even enter Holy Matrimony with each other. That is why they don’t accept the opposite communities bishops. The problem is Knanayas are the minority, they make up 1/40th of the entire Syro Malabar population. During the creation of the St.Thomas Diocese many Knanaya Parishes had even thought of joining Latin Diocese because they knew we would have less problems there, but of course the Major Archbishop laid claim to our parishes. For example the Knanaya Catholic mission in Houston was for the longest time part of the Latin Archdiocese of Galveston-Houston under Cardinal Daniel DiNardo but when it was finally changed to parish status, it came under the St.Thomas Diocese.

Like Hesychios said the diocese is not willing to give up there flock. It is understandable though, that is 1/3 of their total parishes as well as about 20 priests. Also we have no form of hierarchy in the U.S, we have a bishop who is of the opposite community and a vicar general who is the least bit Knanaya. Our vicar general Msg. Fr. Abraham Mutholam, no disrespect to the man, he is a very humble priest who has done many good deeds but he was maybe the worst choice for vicar general for the Knanaya Catholics because he has more loyalty to the bishop than us, he is almost like a puppet of the bishop. Also our Metropolitan Mar Mathew has no jurisdiction over us,so there is nothing he can do. I really feel the only one who could help is Major Archbishop Mar George, but of coarse he will not.

 

[ByzCathCantor]

KCCNA our national congress made a pledge on arriving in America and that pledge is to attain a diocese for the Knanaya Catholics. See the thing is Knanayas want it to be equal and fair among us and the Syro Malabar Catholics.

As many other immigrants learned before you, America may be the land of opportunity, but that does not apply to your status as a Catholic. America was long ago claimed as Latin Church territory. Other Eastern Churches have struggled as you do now to establish your own presence in the New World. The problem is that a bureaucracy is well established that favors the current order. As the canonical territory for Knanayas is elsewhere, the rules back home no longer apply. As the Church may see it, that you are under that pastoral care of Syro Malabar diocese instead of a Latin Catholic diocese is likely seen as sufficient. The idea of extending the territory of the Kottayam Jurisdiction is highly unlikely, at best.

All that said, I do appreciate the fervent wishes of the Knanaya here in the U.S. and commend your desire to remain united and preserve your own unique patrimony. That must be accomplished no matter what happens. We pray for your success in that regard.

 

[Peter_J]

As I see it (I think) the Southists would have to be completely separated by Rome in India first, recognizing them as a Sui Iuris church. Then the diaspora of that church, unserved by a hierarchy of their own, could receive help from local ordinaries in new locations. If there are enough locations to warrant it, Rome might erect a new eparchy in the USA and separate the existing parishes and missions from the Eparchy of St Thomas at Chicago and from the other (presumably Latin) dioceses across the country which have sponsored them.

That sounds about right to me.

 

[malphono]

You mean Mar Mathew

I was using the Syriac form of his name.

I’m with you on the idea of a Auxillary bishop Malphono but the problem is that still wont be fair. In the eyes of the Knanaya Catholics that will just be another win for the Syro Malabar Catholics. They will see it as another step away from achieving our diocese. KCCNA our national congress made a pledge on arriving in America and that pledge is to attain a diocese for the Knanaya Catholics. See the thing is Knanayas want it to be equal and fair among us and the Syro Malabar Catholics.

There’s an expression that says “half a loaf is better than none” and I really think that has application in this situation. If the KCCNA would back-up a step or two, they might just realize that having a dedicated auxiliary would, first and foremost, give them a bishop of their own to tend to their own affairs. While an auxiliary bishop isn’t going to declare open warfare against the Ordinary, he would, in this scenario, have a lot more freedom than does even a Vicar-General. Plus, if the auxiliary bishop scenario were to come to fruition and prove to be successful, it could well set the stage for the establishment of a separate diocese. Sometimes we have to take small steps to get where we want to go.

Just some food for thought.

 

[fijiq48]

Oh i see haha, we usually call Mar Mathew Moolakattu, Mar Mathew not to confuse with His Grace Mar Mathai Makil.

Thank you for all the wishes and prayers but what i heard today really shocked me and I don’t really see a future in a Knanaya diocese here. I was invited to a party today and the vicar of my Knanaya Church was there, Fr. Jose. About a dozen of us were just sitting around a table and chatting when the topic of a Knanaya diocese in the U.S had popped up. I had asked Fr. Jose why our bishops at Kottayam have not made a single move towards a diocese here. Fr. Jose told me that our bishops are not for a diocese here and that they tell the vicars, to tell the community to find something better to do. Me and a few others had asked if we could maybe ask His Holiness Mar George Allencherry to come speak with us(Mar George is currently in the U.S for the Syro Malabar convention), Fr. Jose said there was no point because Mar George would do the same as the Kottayam Metrans.

This had really ticked me off, because Mar Mathew and Mar Joseph(Our Auxillary at Kottayam) come to the U.S and sweet talk the community saying, Yes! Yes we can do it! Yes we can have a diocese here! It just takes time and patience! but than in actuality they tell our vicars to forget about that ever happening… Then they go back to Kottayam to sit in there high thrones and forget about all they tell us. What kind of Knanaya Kottayam Metrans are you??? If all you do is slither back to Kottayam and forget everything that happened here. Now, i really don’t think those two deserve the post as Kottayam Metran. How can they measure up to great leaders like Mar Mathai Makil, Mar Alexander Choolaparambil, Mar Thomas Tharayil and Mar Kunnacherry.

Usually at the U.S KCCNA convention we invite our Kottayam Metrans and even Mar Jacob Angadiath. But not this year and at first i thought it was a great disgrace not to but now i understand why they didn’t. You know who they did invite? Arch Bishop Kuriakose Mor Severios and Arch Bishop Mor Silvanos Ayub, bishops of the Knanaya Jacobite Diocese. These two actually care about the Knanaya Catholic diaspora in the U.S even though we are not even members of the same greater church. Arch Bishop Mor Silvanos Ayub is actually the regional metropolitan of Knanaya Jacobites in North America and Canada. What i found out today was that many Knanaya Catholics had even asked if our parishes could be under him. I feel like the Jacobites treat their Knanaya faithful a lot better than the Knanaya Catholics are treated under the Syro Malabar Catholics. One of the early Knanaya Jacobite bishops was even named Chief Metropolitan of the East. Even though the Knanaya Jacobites have thousands less of a diaspora then the Catholics in the U.S , the Jacobite head metropolitan was kind enough to grant them a Regional Metropolitan here. If only the catholic hierarchy were that kind. With no form of hierarchy supporting us I don’t know how this dream can be made possible. What we have is about 8200 faithful supporting this split as well as 20 priests excluding the “Puppet Vicar General”. Perhaps with the support of the Knanaya Jacobite Bishops this could be achieved? Maybe the Mar Papa may even open his eyes to this topic if he see’s the community calling on external bishops for help.

Anyway all that being said I’m with you on the auxiliary bishop plan but I had brought that up at the discussion today and others there had said that would not be possible because it is a Syro Malabar Diocese and not an official Knanaya one. A Knanaya bishop could not be enthroned.

 

[Diak]

If there are multiple parishes, missions etc. you can petition the hierarchy of your particular Church to request the establishment of an Apostolic Visitor and then an Exarchate (sometimes this happens simultaneously). These are the first step to the creation of a new Eparchy.