Eph 3:17 - a Lutheran passage?

[fineca]

“so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith.”

How can this be affirmed by Catholicism? Don’t we believe that Christ dwells in our hearts through grace rather than faith - a person can have faith but not sanctigying grace and thus not have Christ dwelling in their heart. It’s not faith but charity that unites the soul to God. Paul sounds pretty Lutheran here doesn’t he?

 

[wow]

It’s not faith but charity that unites the soul to God.

Eph 3:17 That Christ may dwell by faith in your hearts: that, being rooted and founded in charity,
Eph 3:18 You may be able to comprehend, with all the saints, what is the breadth and length and height and depth,
Eph 3:19 To know also the charity of Christ, which surpasseth all knowledge: that you may be filled unto all the fulness of God.
Eph 3:20 Now to him who is able to do all things more abundantly than we desire or understand, according to the power that worketh in us:
Eph 3:21 To him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus, unto all generations, world without end. Amen.

It sounds more Catholic when you don’t pluck a little bit out, wouldn’t you say?

 

[Jim_Baur]

Ironic: the Lutherians believe that justification is extrinsic–no indwelling for justification. However, justification includes love and faith.

Furthermore, I Timothy 1: 14 from the KJV: And the GRACE of Our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

Grace gives us love and faith, and many other Gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Love and faith are placed in our soul at the same time, baptism. However, love is first. Love is first as the soul is first when compared to the body. The soul gives life to the body and love gives “energeo” to faith. Also, love is the greatest, I Cor. chatper 13.

Galatians 5: 6 For in Christ Jesus, neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working (“energeo”) through love.

 

[fineca]

Indeed.

But actually according to modern Finnish (my country is the most Lutheran one in the world at least nominally) Luther studies Luther believed that justification was precisely the unio cum Christo, Christ is taken hold of by faith and so we unite ourselves with him in the blessed exchange - he dwells in us and thus God seeing him in us/that faith in us credits us with righteousness. The Lutheran Reformer Osiander took this to the extreme and taught clearly that justification is the indwelling of God in us he however was opposed by Flacius’ other extreme (totally forensic) and later the Book of Concord itself. Anyway it is this view of Luther that allowed the Joint Declaration to be made.

 

[Jim_Baur]

I have heard many times from the LCMS that justification is extrinsic. It is merely an extrinsic judgment that we are righteous. God acknowledges Christ’s righteousness and not the individuals.

I truly apologize if I am making a mistake.

To give my particular source–KFUO radio. It is on the WEB.

Again, I could be mistaken. I am not a scholar, but a student.

The two teachers on KFUO that I thought taught me that are-- Pastor Tom Baker and Pastor Todd Wilken.

Again, I send my loving apology for my mistake. Since I have caused harm, please for give me.

In Christ’s Infinite Love and Eternal Beauty,

Jim Baur

 

[Stillkickin]

Eph 3:17 That Christ may dwell by faith in your hearts: that, being rooted and founded in charity,
Eph 3:18 You may be able to comprehend, with all the saints, what is the breadth and length and height and depth,
Eph 3:19 To know also the charity of Christ, which surpasseth all knowledge: that you may be filled unto all the fulness of God.
Eph 3:20 Now to him who is able to do all things more abundantly than we desire or understand, according to the power that worketh in us:
Eph 3:21 To him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus, unto all generations, world without end. Amen.

It sounds more Catholic when you don’t pluck a little bit out, wouldn’t you say?

Exactly! Scripture must be read as a whole not as isolated little exerpts. Here is how a Catholic is advised to read Scripture by the CCC.

115 According to an ancient tradition, one can distinguish between two senses of Scripture: the literal and the spiritual, the latter being subdivided into the allegorical, moral and anagogical senses. The profound concordance of the four senses guarantees all its richness to the living reading of Scripture in the Church.

116 The literal sense is the meaning conveyed by the words of Scripture and discovered by exegesis, following the rules of sound interpretation: “All other senses of Sacred Scripture are based on the literal.”

117 The spiritual sense. Thanks to the unity of God’s plan, not only the text of Scripture but also the realities and events about which it speaks can be signs.

1. The allegorical sense. We can acquire a more profound understanding of events by recognizing their significance in Christ; thus the crossing of the Red Sea is a sign or type of Christ’s victory and also of Christian Baptism.
2. The moral sense. The events reported in Scripture ought to lead us to act justly. As St. Paul says, they were written “for our instruction”.
3. The anagogical sense (Greek: anagoge, “leading”). We can view realities and events in terms of their eternal significance, leading us toward our true homeland: thus the Church on earth is a sign of the heavenly Jerusalem.

Stillkickin