Ephesians 1:3ff. and predestination

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Ephesians 1:3ff. pretty clearly teaches that, in some way or another, God “chose us before the foundation of the world,” and it even uses the word “predestined” explicitly.

How do Catholics understand this passage and other passages that use the word “predestination” or its variances?
 
Ephesians 1:3ff. pretty clearly teaches that, in some way or another, God “chose us before the foundation of the world,” and it even uses the word “predestined” explicitly.

How do Catholics understand this passage and other passages that use the word “predestination” or its variances?
A Catholic point of view of Ephesians 1 from the Haydock Bible Commentary

Ver. 1. St. Chrysostom takes notice, in his preface to this epistle, that the doctrinal part in the first three chapters is treated in a very sublime manner, with long periods and sentences, which makes the style more perplexed and the sense more obscure than in his other epistles. On this account I shall first give the reader a paraphrase as literal as I can, and then make some short notes on the difficulties in the text. (Witham)

Ver. 3. Blessed be the God, who, through his Son Jesus Christ, made man, hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings and gifts; and by his grace, infused into our souls, has given us a title to a happy eternity in heaven. (Witham) — In heavenly things; (in cœlestibus) i.e. all spiritual blessings for heaven, or for eternity. This is the object of all the blessings we receive from God; and we ought, according to the first intention of them, to refer them all to eternal or heavenly beatitude. St. Paul distinguishes the blessings which we receive in Jesus Christ from those bestowed upon the Jews, which were temporal and limited to this earth. (Calmet; Challoner)

[For additional comments on verse 3, see the Notes section, below.]

Ver. 4-8. As by his eternal decree, according to the purpose of his good will and pleasure, he hath made choice of us to be his adoptive sons, and predestinated us to be saved and glorified by the merits and grace of his beloved Son, our Redeemer, without any merits of ours to the glorious praise and riches of his grace, by which he hath made us abound in all wisdom and true prudence. (Witham)

[For additional comments on verses 6 and 8, see the Notes section, below.]

Ver. 9. That he might make known to us, and to all men, the mystery of his will and pleasure in establishing his new law, of calling all Gentiles, as well as Jews, to believe in his Son, made man for us, in the dispensation of the fulness of times, (that is, at the time decreed from eternity) to establish, to accomplish, and, as it is in the Greek, to recapitulate all things in heaven and on earth, in Christ, and through him, and his merits; on earth, by fulfilling all the types, figures, and prophecies concerning the Messias; and in heaven, by filling up the number of his elect. (Witham) — The mystery of his will. The word mystery signifies a secret, an unknown design. It was the will of God, to reveal to us the great design he had in the incarnation of his Son, viz. the formation of one great body of true adorers; composed, without distinction, of Jew and Gentile: till (ver. 10) when the time appointed shall come, he will reunite and perfect in or under Christ this one body, composed of the Church triumphant, Angels and saints in heaven, and the Church militant upon earth. (St. Chrysostom, Estius, &c.)

[For additional comments on verses 9 and 10, see the Notes section, below.]

Ver. 11. In Christ we also are called by lot; i.e. to this happy lot, this share and state of eternal happiness, (he seems to speak with an allusion to the manner by which the lands of a temporal inheritance was distributed to the Israelites, in Palestine) that we (ver. 12) who are saved, may be to the praise of his glory; might praise God for ever in the kingdom of his glory; particularly we Jews, who before hoped in the Messias to come, and also you Gentiles, who now having heard the gospel, have believed in Christ, and who, together with all Christians, have been now sealed as it were with the holy Spirit of promise; i.e. by the Spirit promised, and all those spiritual graces which are an earnest and pledge, which give us an assurance of our future glory and happiness. For our redemption from our sins, and in order to the acquired possession, to the possession of that glorious happiness which Christ, by his incarnation and death, hath acquired for us. (Witham)

Ver. 13. In whom you…were sealed, &c. Having been regenerated in baptism, you have received the Holy Spirit and the supernatural gifts which he communicates, by which he has, as it were, impressed upon you the seal of your sanctification and the pledge of your salvation. It is not an external impression, such as that by which soldiers are marked by their sovereigns, nor circumcision, as of old, but it is a mark within you—the grace with which you are filled—which shews itself outwardly by miraculous effects, &c. (Calmet) — Some refer these words, in whom you were sealed, to the sacrament of baptism; others to confirmation: both, with the sacrament of holy orders, confer a character, or mark, of which St. Paul seems to speak whenever he speaks of God sealing us.

[Ver. 14. See the Notes section, below.]
 
Ver. 15, &c. Wherefore…hearing of your constancy in the faith of Christ, and of your charitable love to all the saints, or faithful, I give always thanks to God; I pray that God may be more revealed to you, that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, (ver. 18) that you may know what ground you have to hope in the transcendent greatness of God’s almighty power, who raised Christ from the dead, (ver. 20) and set him on his right hand in heaven, above all the choirs and orders of blessed spirits, putting all things under his feet, making him, as man, head over all his Church militant on earth, and triumphant in heaven: which Church is his mystical body, who is filled all in all, (ver. 23) or as others have translated, who filleth all in all; the sense is, that the glory of Christ, as head of all, is filled and increased by the salvation and happiness of all his chosen members, and of all his elect, to the end of the world. (Witham)

Ver. 19. His power. The greatest exertion of the power of God, or that action by which he shewed his power most, is the resurrection from the dead, which he exercised in Christ, when he raised him from the tomb, and placed him over all the Angels of heaven; and which shall likewise be exercised over us all, when we too shall be raised from the dead, and constituted members of the triumphant Church, and rewarded with a share of glory proportioned to our merits. These are the hopes to which we are called.

Ver. 21. All principality. The Fathers agree that there are nine orders of blessed spirits, of which some are specified here; in the Epistle to the Colossians we have the order of thrones, to which if we add the cherubim, seraphim, Angels, and Archangels, we shall have nine. Calvin and other heretics strive to bring into doubt, and to corrupt many points of Catholic doctrine, sufficiently clear in holy writ, and sanctified by the general belief of the Universal or Catholic Church.

Ver. 22. As Christ is king, and yet men are kings also; so Christ is head of the Church, and yet man may be head thereof also. Jesus Christ is bishop and pastor of our souls; (Hebrews iii.) but is that a reason why there should be no other bishop and pastor of our souls?
 
Hi Confessor,

Out of an infinite number of possible worlds, God chose to create this one, where there would be free will and we would have the choice of accepting God or rejecting Him, knowing that some of us, and who, would reject Him. In that sense God has predestined each one of us to salvation or damnation. But it is we who decide to accept or reject God. God’s knowledge does not save or condemn us.

Why would God create such a world? Because he wanted a world where there would be love, and there cannot be love without the power to choose, i.e. without free will. Such a world is a reflection of the Trinity, where each person gives and received freely.

Verbum
 
Hi Confessor,

Out of an infinite number of possible worlds, God chose to create this one, where there would be free will and we would have the choice of accepting God or rejecting Him, knowing that some of us, and who, would reject Him. In that sense God has predestined each one of us to salvation or damnation. But it is we who decide to accept or reject God. God’s knowledge does not save or condemn us.

Why would God create such a world? Because he wanted a world where there would be love, and there cannot be love without the power to choose, i.e. without free will. Such a world is a reflection of the Trinity, where each person gives and received freely.

Verbum
Molinism is still around? I thought that died and was resurrected only with William Lane Craig and a few other evangelical philosophers.

How prominent is Molinism among Catholics today?
 
Molinism is still around? I thought that died and was resurrected only with William Lane Craig and a few other evangelical philosophers.

How prominent is Molinism among Catholics today?
I am pretty Molinistic. I’m practically there with the Armenians, regarding predestination. 🙂

I don’t know how the figures break down, though, between Thomists and Molinists. I happen to think Molinism is closer to what the Scriptures teach, and I agree with it enough to where I’d say I’m comfortable with it.
 
I am pretty Molinistic. I’m practically there with the Armenians, regarding predestination. 🙂

I don’t know how the figures break down, though, between Thomists and Molinists. I happen to think Molinism is closer to what the Scriptures teach, and I agree with it enough to where I’d say I’m comfortable with it.
What are the differences between Thomism and Molinism?

Further, are there other views that are acceptable to Catholics besides those two? That is, what are the other ways, if any, that Catholics interpret predestination texts?
 
The key to predestination is God’s foreknowledge. God knows the past, present, and future. He knows how everyone is going to use their free-will, that is, He knows whether they will chose Him or not, and He is able to predestine them beforehand.
 
The key to predestination is God’s foreknowledge. God knows the past, present, and future. He knows how everyone is going to use their free-will, that is, He knows whether they will chose Him or not, and He is able to predestine them beforehand.
So, the order is this?

human choice => God’s foreknowledge => God’s predestination

Wouldn’t that be a sort of postdestination?
 
So, the order is this?

human choice => God’s foreknowledge => God’s predestination

Wouldn’t that be a sort of postdestination?
No, God has known everybody before he created the world, and He knew how everyone would use their free-will and He was able to predestinate.
 
No, God has known everybody before he created the world, and He knew how everyone would use their free-will and He was able to predestinate.
So does God learn how people will use their free will and then, reacting to this knowledge, “predestinate”?

Again, how would that not transform it into some form of postdestination?
 
So does God learn how people will use their free will and then, reacting to this knowledge, “predestinate”?

Again, how would that not transform it into some form of postdestination?
It is not post because it has been done before creation. Its kind of like knowing the script of a movie before watching it and being able to know who the good guys and the bad guys are before the movie starts.
 
It is not post because it has been done before creation. Its kind of like knowing the script of a movie before watching it and being able to know who the good guys and the bad guys are before the movie starts.
In that case, though, God’s “predestination” would still be logically (though not temporally) after (post-) the events that He is supposedly predestining.
 
Ephesians 1:3ff. pretty clearly teaches that, in some way or another, God “chose us before the foundation of the world,” and it even uses the word “predestined” explicitly.

How do Catholics understand this passage and other passages that use the word “predestination” or its variances?

As that passage, all of it from 3 to 14, stands. Not forgetting Colossians 1 & John’s gospel, which is full of predestination - esp. chapter 6​

I think it is an immensely important doctrine.
 

As that passage, all of it from 3 to 14, stands. Not forgetting Colossians 1 & John’s gospel, which is full of predestination - esp. chapter 6​

I think it is an immensely important doctrine.
What is your view of it? If it’s immensely important, I would presume you have something to say about it?

EDIT - I’m gonna hit the sack now. Splitting headache. I guess I’ll see your answer in the morning.

Good night to all!
 
What is your view of it? If it’s immensely important, I would presume you have something to say about it?

EDIT - I’m gonna hit the sack now. Splitting headache. I guess I’ll see your answer in the morning.

Good night to all!

What is there to say ? Either far too little - or else, drone on non-stop :eek: Not a very good idea :cool: So no, I don’t have anything to say about it. Surely somebody (or somebodies) will 🙂

 
H Confessor,

For God there is no pre or post; everything is in the present. Pre-destination is human terminology, which can never adequately communicate God’s nature or actions.

Verbum
 
H Confessor,

For God there is no pre or post; everything is in the present. Pre-destination is human terminology, which can never adequately communicate God’s nature or actions.

Verbum
Then why did the Holy Spirit inspire Paul to write that God chose us before the foundations of the world?
 
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