Ephesians 2:8-9

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I’m sure that all of us have heard this verse come up during discussions with our Protestant brothers and sisters about Sola Fide:

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.”

Does “Not of works” apply to “it is the gift of God” or to “For by grace ye are saved through faith?”

I.E. If I were to reword this, would I say: “For by grace you are saved through faith. **Faith **is the gift of God, not the gift of works, lest any man should boast.”

OR

Would I say: “For by grace you are saved through faith. **Salvation **is the gift of God, not the gift of works, lest any man should boast.”

Am I even asking the right questions here? Obviously Catholics know better than to believe in Sola Fide, but the second “translation” I wrote seems in support of it. Can anybody help me out here?
 
Grace is a gift of God, you do not receive it from your works.

Then add verse 10.
 
We are saved by faith AND good works

"Take the case, my brothers of someone who has never done a single good act but claims that he has faith. Will that faith save him? If one of the brothers or one of the sisters is in need of clothes and has not enough food to live on, and one of you says to them, ‘I wish you well; keep yourself warm and eat plenty’, without giving them these bare necessities of llife, then what good is that?: if good works do not go with it, it is quite dead.

This is the way to talk to people of that kind: 'You say you have faith and I have good deeds; I will prove to you that I have faith by showing you my good deeds–now you prove to me that you have faith without any good deeds to show.

You believe in one God–that is creditable enough, but the demons have the same belief, and they tremble with fear. Do realise, you senseless man, that faith without works is useless. You surely know that Abraham our Father was justified by his deed, because he offered Isaac on the altar? There you see it; faith and good deeds were working together; his faith became perfect by what he did. This is what scripture really means when it says: Abraham put his faith in God, and this was counted as making him justified; and that is why he was called the friend of God. You see now that it is by doing something good, and not only by believing, that a man is justified." [James 2: 14-24]

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven will enter” [Matthew 7, 21]. Faith increases as a result of our obedience to the will of God, and obedience is achieved by doing good works and trying hard not to neglect them. [2 Corinthians 10,15]. “It is not those who call me ‘Lord, Lord’ who will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the person who does the will of my father in heaven.” [Matthew 7:21]

“Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption; but he who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. And let us not grow weary in well-doing, for in due season we shall reap, if we do not lose heart.” [Galatians 6:7-9] "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure. Phil 2:12-13
 
Is it safe to say that faith alone has no power without grace?
 
I’ve always thought the “gift” referred to in this passage was salvation itself.

EDIT: But the fact that salvation is a gift doesn’t necessarily exclude works… what I think St. Paul means is this: That through the unmerited gift of Christ’s sacrifice, we are now able to obtain God’s grace through faith, and with this grace in hand (and ONLY with it) our “works” are now acceptable to God and we can begin the process of sanctification, which will eventually result in glorification (“salvation” in its completed form).

Without God’s free gift of grace: Works are meaningless/“righteousness like filthy rags”

With God’s free gift of grace: Works now acceptable to God
 
Drew0426 said:
I’m sure that all of us have heard this verse come up during discussions with our Protestant brothers and sisters about Sola Fide:

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.”

Does “Not of works” apply to “it is the gift of God” or to “For by grace ye are saved through faith?”

I.E. If I were to reword this, would I say: “For by grace you are saved through faith. **Faith **is the gift of God, not the gift of works, lest any man should boast.”

OR

Would I say: “For by grace you are saved through faith. **Salvation **is the gift of God, not the gift of works, lest any man should boast.”

Am I even asking the right questions here? Obviously Catholics know better than to believe in Sola Fide, but the second “translation” I wrote seems in support of it. Can anybody help me out here?
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Salvation is a gift. But God uses our faith, among other things (i.e. not faith alone), to save us. In any case, for an adult, it begins with faith.
 
Remember that the works that are being talked about here are not good works but Mosaic works. This is proven when taking the verses in context with the book of Ephesians and the bible holistically. Just include verse 10 to easily see that St. Paul was not talking about good works.

If the topic of works comes up I find its always easier to explain that its not really what we do but what we allow God to do through us. That is what makes our works worthy and all together something of value…because they are through Christ.
 
rben20 said:
Remember that the works that are being talked about here are not good works but Mosaic works.
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I got this sense from the first link that Bookcat posted. Thanks a lot, though 🙂

I love how whenever I learn more about the context of a verse of Scripture that the Catholic Church “opposes,” I learn that it’s almost always only through misinterpretation on the part of the accuser. 🙂
 
The 2nd chapter of Ephisians is talking about the initiation into becoming a christian. Look at the context and language used compared to Colassians 2:11-14 … The Church Believes this entirely, We baptise BABIES !!! what sort of “works” can a baby do to merit eternal life?? It is a free gift of god 🙂 … Hope this helps
 
Drew0426 said:
I got this sense from the first link that Bookcat posted. Thanks a lot, though 🙂

I love how whenever I learn more about the context of a verse of Scripture that the Catholic Church “opposes,” I learn that it’s almost always only through misinterpretation on the part of the accuser. 🙂
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Always the case. The Church is the most bible based there can be…it gave the world the bible after all. ;)😛
 
suissemissed said:
Without God’s free gift of grace: Works are meaningless/“righteousness like filthy rags”

With God’s free gift of grace: Works now acceptable to God
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More than just acceptable, they’re expected. He saves us FOR GOOD WORKS - we become part of His Body so we can carry on His mission. That’s what salvation is, and why we can’ separate faith and works. Unless you come to faith at the moment of death, there’s no getting around the “works” for which He saved you.
 
What I believe the verse means? Haven’t you heard many people in your life say, " I don’t need to go to Church to go to heaven, I’m a good person, I pay my taxes,I don’t hit my spouse, I never killed anyone and I believe in God." I believe people are people and have said this sort of thing forever. The verse is not to discount works as a part of salvation, but to warn people to include both, faith and works.
 
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