Ephesians 2:8-9

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Ephesians 2:8 KJV For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Ephesians 2:9 KJV Not of works, lest any man should boast.

A Protestant I am chatting with is using this verse to “prove” that we are saved by faith alone. Can you please help me refute this? :confused:
 
James 2:14-17

What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother of sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well,” but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good is it? So also, faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

See also, the Gospel of Mathew, chapter 25, verses 31-46. In the only explicit description of the judgement, no mention is made of theology or doctrine… only of works.

God bless!
 
Unfortunately quoting other verses that refute it is not helping. I even quoted James 2:24 and that did not help much.
 
Unfortunately quoting other verses that refute it is not helping. I even quoted James 2:24 and that did not help much.
Read this: JUSTIFICATION

and this: SALVATION

Sounds like you may be up against immovable indoctrination rather than an a misconception before an open mind.

Do not be disappointed should he turn out to not have an ear to hear you.

Those two topics are also beautifully put in the: CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
 
Unfortunately quoting other verses that refute it is not helping. I even quoted James 2:24 and that did not help much.
Oh sorry. I was under the impression that your questioner believed the Bible. If they won’t accept Scripture and they won’t accept the Church, then just love them. Let the deal with that. I don’t know what else to say. Sorry.
 
Ephesians 2:8 KJV For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Ephesians 2:9 KJV Not of works, lest any man should boast.

A Protestant I am chatting with is using this verse to “prove” that we are saved by faith alone. Can you please help me refute this? :confused:
The “works” in verse 8 are those that obligate God to pay you, they are not the same as the “good works” in v10 that a Christian must take care to perform. Make sure to look at Eph 4:17-5:18. That section shows clearly the way a Christian lives their life has an impact on their salvation.
 
Read this: JUSTIFICATION

and this: SALVATION

Sounds like you may be up against immovable indoctrination rather than an a misconception before an open mind.

Do not be disappointed should he turn out to not have an ear to hear you.

Those two topics are also beautifully put in the: CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
Jam 2:14 My brothers, what is the gain if anyone says he has faith, but he does not have works? Is the faith able to save him?
 
Ephesians 2
1And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

7That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

11Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

16And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

17And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

18For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

19Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

20And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

21In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

22In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
 
Oh sorry. I was under the impression that your questioner believed the Bible. If they won’t accept Scripture and they won’t accept the Church, then just love them. Let the deal with that. I don’t know what else to say. Sorry.
I’m sure he does believe the Bible. He just misinterprets it. He didn’t really say much about James 2:24. In fact, he seemed to just totally ignore it. Typical of a Protestant bent on faith only salvation I guess.
 
My understanding of that verse is man cannot save himself. It is the gift of GODS grace. Man cannot make the claim that he himself can save his own soul. But as written in other verses mentioned, faith alone without works is dead. You cannot claim to have faith but refuse to do good works thinking it’s not important. I hope this helps.
 
Ephesians 2:8 KJV For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Ephesians 2:9 KJV Not of works, lest any man should boast.

A Protestant I am chatting with is using this verse to “prove” that we are saved by faith alone. Can you please help me refute this? :confused:
Where in the verse does it say alone? That would be my question. Also, doesn’t it say **by **grace we are saved **through **faith? And it is a gift. So then is faith a gift by the grace of God? Without God’s gift of faith, I cannot believe. Therefore, I cannot believe on my own. So it must be more than just faith that saves us.

But again, I’ll ask my original question; where in the verse does it say alone?
 
Ephesians 2:8 KJV For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Ephesians 2:9 KJV Not of works, lest any man should boast.

A Protestant I am chatting with is using this verse to “prove” that we are saved by faith alone. Can you please help me refute this? :confused:
Indeed, this passage says we ARE saved by GRACE through FAITH and that is true. What this passage does NOT say is faith ALONE. You can’t just add meaning to a verse that isn’t there. This passage also says we are not saved OF ourselves. Also true… We cannot save ourselves by our works or otherwise. This passage tells us that our works cannot save us by our own merit.

This passage also has to be looked at in light of James 2:24 “You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.” You can’t just throw out James or pass it off as having another meaning. This is non-sensical.

If we are saved by anything ALONE, it is God’s GRACE. Not our faith.

Also, look at 1 Cor 13:2 “If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.”

Faith alone? NO!

1 Cor 13:13 “And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.”

Faith is the greatest? NO!

Mt 19:16-17 "Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?” “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments.”

Faith alone? I don’t think so!

Mt 7:21 "“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.”

Faith alone? NO!

All these passages clearly state that we have to DO something. Faith is not enough. We must love, we must obey, we must keep the commandments. All these are in addition to faith!

It is not EITHER/OR but rather BOTH/AND. If we are going to say our faith alone saves us, where does that leave Christ’s redemptive work on the cross. Faith ALONE leaves that out! Plus, faith IS a work… It is something we have to DO!

James tells us that we cannot separate them. Faith produces good works. Without them, we don’t have a saving faith. There is simply no way around it. They are inseparable! Faith without WORKS is dead. By saying “faith alone” you’re leaving out the works and that only leaves a dead faith!

Good luck to you with your friend!
 
I’m sure he does believe the Bible. He just misinterprets it. He didn’t really say much about James 2:24. In fact, he seemed to just totally ignore it. Typical of a Protestant bent on faith only salvation I guess.
Ask him if all of scripture is to be considered inspired. If he does, he cannot ignore James. He has to have an answer for it. But be patient. If he is finding he agrees with you, he will likely NOT admit it in front of you… but he will go away thinking.

Many of us do not like to admit our belief is wrong and it’s the work of the Holy Spirit to change our hearts… just present him with the truth and let it be. Don’t get upset and don’t try to convince him of everything all at once. Don’t get discouraged if he seems to not listen.

And, of course, PRAY! 🙂
 
The “works” in verse 8 are those that obligate God to pay you, they are not the same as the “good works” in v10 that a Christian must take care to perform. Make sure to look at Eph 4:17-5:18. That section shows clearly the way a Christian lives their life has an impact on their salvation.
You also may want to look at verse 10:

For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Clearly works are not condemned… but instead are essential since we are created to do good works! It’s just that these works, in and of themselves, without faith, do not save us.
 
I think ( but can’t say for sure ) Jimmy Akin had said on one of his programs that Martin Luther added the word alone in 1529 when he rewrote the bible. I have a KJV bible I do not remember finding the word alone in it but I will look again. It has been awhile since I have read the KJV. I work out of my Catholic bible mostly. Ask your frind to show you where it is in his/her bible.Then ask how he/she can take only one verse and say that’s the only way when there are so many other verses refuting it.God Bless!
 
Unfortunately quoting other verses that refute it is not helping. I even quoted James 2:24 and that did not help much.
So let me get this straight. This person is using the bible to defend his/her faith, but you are not allowed to use the bible to defend yours? Sounds fair to me! :ehh:

I agree with other posters. Where does the bible say “faith alone”? However, it quite bluntly says “faith without works is dead!”

WAIT, I FOUND WHERE IT SAYS FAITH**…**ALONE IN THE KJV!!!
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
James 2:17
Boy, that **… **is pretty important stuff to leave out!
 
I have not yet had the chance to talk to this guy again. I plan to talk to him about it with the advice you all have given me when I see him online again. Thanks everyone for the advice.
 
I think ( but can’t say for sure ) Jimmy Akin had said on one of his programs that Martin Luther added the word alone in 1529 when he rewrote the bible. I have a KJV bible I do not remember finding the word alone in it but I will look again. It has been awhile since I have read the KJV. I work out of my Catholic bible mostly. Ask your frind to show you where it is in his/her bible.Then ask how he/she can take only one verse and say that’s the only way when there are so many other verses refuting it.God Bless!
You won’t find it in the KJV. That is a translation commissioned by King James of England into the English language. Doubtful you will find it in any Luther translation anymore. I’ve heard that numerous times too…haven’t time right now to dig up verification…but I seriously doubt that any current version would have that since it so clearly goes against scripture to add to or take away from the scripture.
 
I think ( but can’t say for sure ) Jimmy Akin had said on one of his programs that Martin Luther added the word alone in 1529 when he rewrote the bible. I have a KJV bible I do not remember finding the word alone in it but I will look again. It has been awhile since I have read the KJV. I work out of my Catholic bible mostly. Ask your frind to show you where it is in his/her bible.Then ask how he/she can take only one verse and say that’s the only way when there are so many other verses refuting it.God Bless!
It was Romans 3:28, it was only in his German version, and he later took it out.
Ummm…
He removed books from the bible and added words to the bible…
isn’t there a bible verse about that?
 
Where in the verse does it say alone? That would be my question. Also, doesn’t it say **by **grace we are saved **through **faith? And it is a gift. So then is faith a gift by the grace of God? Without God’s gift of faith, I cannot believe. Therefore, I cannot believe on my own. So it must be more than just faith that saves us.

But again, I’ll ask my original question; where in the verse does it say alone?
This is a good method. There is only one place in the Bible where it says “faith alone”. That is the place holly referenced that says you are NOT saved by faith alone.

However, I disagree with you here about faith. It is true that grace kindles our faith, just as hearing the Word of God will do, but faith is a quality that belongs to human beings, and we must exercise it in order to be saved. Look how many times in the gospels where Jesus says “you faith has saved you”. We are in charge of our faith, and where we put that faith. True, that faith must be mixed with grace in order for salvation to occur, but grace is God’s part, and faith is ours. Protestants often accuse Catholics of works based salvation because Catholicism teaches that we have a part to play.

Heb 4:2-3
2 For good news came to us just as to them; but the message which they heard did not benefit them, because it did not meet with faith in the hearers. 3 For we who have believed enter that rest,…"

John 6:28-29
28 Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”

God does not save us against our will as the predesinationists claim. I guess if you call putting your faith in Christ a “work” then it is a works based salvation, but I don’t think there is any such thing!

The other point to work with on this point is the meaning of the word salvation. This sola fide person thinks that salvation is a once shot deal, where Catholics believe that we are justified at baptism, that we are being saved throughout our lives, and that we will be saved at the last judgement (by God’s mercy). So, instead of arguing about Eph. 2:9-10 it might be more helpful to argue about what salvation means, and show that it is not just a one shot deal.
 
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