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Debora123
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It DOES put them back on equal footing. That’s the point.
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FatherOfTwelve
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EPH 5:17 Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. 18 And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery; but be filled with the Spirit, 19* addressing **one another **in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with all your heart, 20 always and for everything giving thanks in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ to God the Father. 21 Be subject to one another out of reverence for Christ.It DOES put them back on equal footing. That’s the point.
The “one another” is the same “one another” at the beginning of verse 19, which means everyone. We are to be “subject” to everyone. God tells us to “Love thy neighbor as thyself”
Yes Husband and wife are equal before God, but the Husband is the Head of his wife.
God and Jesus are equal. But Jesus submitted to the Father.
1st Cor 11: Chapter 11
1* Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ. 2* I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you. 3* But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a woman is her husband, and the head of Christ is God.
Catholic theology has no problem at all with God (Father) being the Head of Christ. BUT THEY ARE EQUAL.
Same goes for Husband and wife. They are equal, but God holds the Husband responsible for his wife. Hence, The sin of Adam.
HE DID NOTHING TO STOP IT
Eve took the fruit first, NOTHING HAPPENED
As soon as Adam ate, Their eyes were opened.
Same goes for The Blessed Mother and Christ except in reverse order. Mary - Sinless, no salvation. Jesus (Head) Sinless whoo-hoo Salvation possible!!!
CCC
The consequences of Adam’s sin for humanity
402 All men are implicated in Adam’s sin, as St. Paul affirms: “By one man’s disobedience many (that is, all men) were made sinners”: “sin came into the world through **one man **and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all men sinned.”[289] The Apostle contrasts the universality of sin and death with the universality of salvation in Christ. “Then as one man’s trespass led to condemnation for all men, so **one man’s **act of righteousness leads to acquittal and life for all men.”[290]
God held Adam responsible, he is the Head. Same as Captain of the Ship.
And yes being a former Navy man, the Captain and the Executive officer (the #2 Guy) can be the exact same rank. the XO still submits to the authority of the Captain even though they are EQUAL in rank.
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Debora123
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People confuse “the man being the head” with “the man having more authority,” or “the man being above the wife, not equal to her.”
This is not what it means, and they are still very much equal.
When I was in college, my university had a Catholic Student Association that gathered with a priest or two every Thursday and discussed various issues.
This was the issue being discussed on one Thursday, and I forgot exactly how they explained what it meant to be “head of the family.” But I DO remember that it had nothing to do with having authority over the wife, or being above equal to the wife. It was more about being called to have the bigger responsibility as the spiritual leader and being the “rock” of the family. Kinda like having the bigger role in guiding the family into heaven or getting through tough times - since men are supposed to be the stronger gender.
Of course, this is very often not the case. In a lot of families, the man does not take on this responsibility and the wife finds herself being the one to be the bigger spiritual leader. But the man is the one who is particularly called to that, and if he doesn’t, he is neglecting his duty as a man.
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FatherOfTwelve
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VeritasLuxMea
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After thousands of years, can we also acknowledge that the ancient Semites in general had a backwards patriarchal culture?
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FatherOfTwelve
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Debora123
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“The woman came from a man’s rib. Not from his feet to be walked on. Not from his head to be superior. But from his side to be equal… under his arm to be protected… and next to his heart to be loved.” 
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FatherOfTwelve
Guest
True, not to be walked on, but to be Loved as Christ loves the Church, willing to give his life for his Bride!“The woman came from a man’s rib. Not from his feet to be walked on. Not from his head to be superior. But from his side to be equal… under his arm to be protected… and next to his heart to be loved.”
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Debora123
Guest
Yes.
…And if he’s willing to DIE for her, then he is of course also willing to do her will sometimes when there is a disagreement. And vice versa. That’s the beauty of it… in the end they really are both submissive to each other.
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VeritasLuxMea
Guest
Heheh“The woman came from a man’s rib. Not from his feet to be walked on. Not from his head to be superior. But from his side to be equal… under his arm to be protected… and next to his heart to be loved.”
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FatherOfTwelve
Guest
I will say this, Yes at times the husband WILL DO the will of his wife. There is nothing wrong with that. Heck, he may do it all the time. But the point that everyone I think misses is that God still holds the MAN responsible for that decision. As the Head he is ultimatley responsible to God for the direction his family goes. The head does not have to make evrey single decision or even give (name removed by moderator)ut to the wife. But, he is held accountable. Just as Adam was.
Example: (I know someone will FLAME me) My wife made a decision to put $$$$.$$ on the credit card. Did she need to ask my “permission” no. She is an “authorized User”, Was I PO’d. yes. Am I held responsible for her decision, ASK CHASE BANK, they’ll say H&LL Y&$ you are! Now pay the bill.
Yes everyone can poke a hole in my example. But the exact same thing happened to Adam. Eve ate, God held Adam responsible. (yes he swiped the card to for some golf clubs)
Yes equality is a grand thing!
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Debora123
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Yes and no. Sure he is responsible for that decision, but his “decision” must be always aimed at putting his wife ahead of himself, as well as doing the right thing.
So it’s not like “oh yeah, the man makes all the decisions… so he can just run around and do what he wants as long as it’s not sinful in itself”
Nope!
There IS definitely a catch.
So in the end, they are both submissive to each other. And they are equals.
…And that’s all I’m getting at. If you disagree, then we agree to disagree. Though I don’t think I have much else to say.
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FatherOfTwelve
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I really don’t “Disagree”. It’s more semantics than anything. Yea, I’m done with this thread. Have a nice day!Yes and no. Sure he is responsible for that decision, but his “decision” must be always aimed at putting his wife ahead of himself, as well as doing the right thing.
So it’s not like “oh yeah, the man makes all the decisions… so he can just run around and do what he wants as long as it’s not sinful in itself”
Nope!
There IS definitely a catch.
So in the end, they are both submissive to each other. And they are equals.
…And that’s all I’m getting at. If you disagree, then we agree to disagree. Though I don’t think I have much else to say.
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Busy_bee
Guest
I was reading the posts on this thread, and I wanted to point out that the disciples were not shocked to find Jesus speaking with a woman. (He had Mary and Martha as friends)
Nor were they shocked because he was talking to a samaritan woman (maybe surprised).
I think they were shocked because he was talking to a woman “alone”.
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kbachler
Guest
I beg to differ. Christ’s behavior with Mary in particular and Martha were outside the norm of the day. The disciples would have been surprised that he was talking to a woman (alone) and especially a Samaritan woman. (In fact, it’s one of the reasons why the parable of the good Samaritan is about a Samaritan.) If the Samaritan’s weren’t viewed differently, the parable wouldn’t have made sense.
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