Epidurals

[Miles_Mariae]

Must one be in pain the entire labor? If a woman is in pain until she gets to the hospital, does that fill the pain requirement?

The only way childbirth would not be painful is if a woman was completely knocked out, labor was started artificially, and she didn’t regain consciousness until the baby had been delivered.

Therefore, most women do endure pain in childbirth.

—KCT

Fair enough. Good answer, and I concur.

 

[KCT]

Actually, I was hoping someone might be illuminating us on the whole thing. I am marginally disappointed that this does not seem likely to happen. .

Because as Catholics, we do not live by scripture alone. We have the teaching authority of the Church. If the Church has not said that epidurals are wrong, we need not worry about it.
—KCT

 

[Miles_Mariae]

Because as Catholics, we do not live by scripture alone. We have the teaching authority of the Church. If the Church has not said that epidurals are wrong, we need not worry about it.
—KCT

I don’t want to argue on such a trivial point, especially after having agreed with you on the actual issue. Suffice it to say that it is possible to teach others in illuminating ways without sola scriptura

 

[Shiann]

To the woman also he said: I will multiply thy sorrows, and thy conceptions: in sorrow shalt thou bring forth children, and thou shalt be under thy husband’s power, and he shall have dominion over thee.

There are a lot of definitions of sorrow… pain being only one.

And what of the women who do not experience much pain in childbirth… even ::gasp:: orgasm?

 

[whatevergirl]

Well no, it’s not as ridiculous as you’re making it sound. I can’t find a word in scripture that decrees that everyone should have headaches and muscle spasms. On the other hand, Gen 3:16 explicitly says that childbearing is to be painful.

Oh only women should have pain?

 

[Miles_Mariae]

Oh only women should have pain?

The model seems to be that the woman would suffer through childbearing, and the man would earn his keep by the sweat of his brow.

 

[Em_in_FL]

The model seems to be that the woman would suffer through childbearing, and the man would earn his keep by the sweat of his brow.

Which is why this scriptural reference isn’t a fundamental requirement of the faith…

Otherwise… what about us poor working mothers???
Nothing in the teachings of the faith against mothers who work, right?

 

[Miles_Mariae]

Nothing in the teachings of the faith against mothers who work, right?

Nothing at all, ma’am

 

[SMHW]

The Church teaches that we come from two parents, Adam and Eve. Is this not also found in Genesis? What differentiates this fact from ?

There are four basic categories of sentences: declarative, imperative, interrogative and exclamatory.

A declarative sentence gives information. (The dog chased the ball.)

An imperative sentence is a command. (Sweep the floor.)

An interrogative sentence is a question. An exclamatory sentence is one of the other types with emphasis (which requires and exclamation point.)

(I’ve sometimes seen another category of sentence listed, the rhetorical sentence, but I’ll leave that for grammar class.)

Since God is speaking to Adam and Eve in Genesis 3:16-19 some people interpret His words as imperative remarks . In other words, some people believe He is commanding Eve to have painful childbirth and Adam to experience hard physical labor. If this were the case then we would be defying God by using pain control for childbirth or by performing easy labor.

But God’s words make more sense when they are understood to be declarative. God isn’t telling women and men what they MUST experience. He’s telling them what the normal human experience will be in spite of any action or inaction that people will take.

 

[Phemie]

I don’t know. Actually, I was hoping someone might be illuminating us on the whole thing. I am marginally disappointed that this does not seem likely to happen.

Epidural entering the back… probably not the intense pangs that are being referred to. In fact probably nothing in the process rivals labor.

But how do you reconcile that passage in Genesis with the fact that some women breeze through labor without even feeling the contractions – witness my roommate who was 7cm dilated without feeling a contraction and delivered twins with without hardly feeling anything?

 

[Miles_Mariae]

But how do you reconcile that passage in Genesis with the fact that some women breeze through labor without even feeling the contractions – witness my roommate who was 7cm dilated without feeling a contraction and delivered twins with without hardly feeling anything?

Simply put, I don’t. My knowledge of Scripture barely allows me to ask intelligible questions, let alone perform apologetics.

According to SMHW’s grammar lesson, it would seem that the declarative sentence in 3:16 simply doesn’t hold for people like the one you described. Just like it would hold in a very reduced way for people who use anesthetics.

 

[FLCathMom]

Webster’s dictionary defines childbearing thus:

child·bear·ing: of or relating to the process of conceiving, being pregnant with, and giving birth to children <women of childbearing age>

I doubt there is any woman who does not feel pain at some point during her pregnancy. Tiredness, back pain, stomach upset- all of these things are very common. Many women are miserable from the very beginning. The pain of childbearing is not limited to the actual birthing process. I see the passage in Genesis as an explanation of why this happens, not as a command we must follow.

 

[Atlanta_Jen]

Well fwiw, I delivered two of my children in a Catholic hospital, with epidurals. I’m sure if there was some rule in the Church that use of epdiurals was somehow against what is acceptable by the Church, it wouldn’t be offered, just as tubal ligations are not offered at that same hospital. Any mom wishing to have her tubes tied after delivery had to deliver elsewhere because it is not permitted by the Church.

 

[StratusRose]

To the OP, are you a man or a woman?

 

[lifeisbeautiful]

Well fwiw, I delivered two of my children in a Catholic hospital, with epidurals. I’m sure if there was some rule in the Church that use of epdiurals was somehow against what is acceptable by the Church, it wouldn’t be offered, just as tubal ligations are not offered at that same hospital. Any mom wishing to have her tubes tied after delivery had to deliver elsewhere because it is not permitted by the Church.

Wow, that’s pretty cool that they are a practicing Catholic hospital. I am not sure about the regulations at my Catholic hospital, though I love the fact that they have daily Mass in a Chapel that is on the same floor where I deliver/recover (lol, the only way I could make it to Mass the day after delivering), and they show it on their TV’s too. Nevertheless, I saw an add in the phone book of an OB that has his office at the hospital and he offers abortions

Anyways, to the OP, no, it does not go against the Church’s teachings to get an epidural Among other arguments presented, if an epidural was wrong for helping with the pain (most women will experience pain before and/or after, even if the epidural works 100% and they only feel pressure during that period), then so would any other type of measures that to one degree or another help lessen childbirth pain.

 

[Em_in_FL]

To the OP, are you a man or a woman?

He’s stated in other threads that he’s a man.

 

[StratusRose]

He’s stated in other threads that he’s a man.

Thanks for the update.

Easy for him to say that women should endure the pain if childbirth when he never will have the opportunity. But I guess that’s obvious.

 

[Atlanta_Jen]

Wow, that’s pretty cool that they are a practicing Catholic hospital. I am not sure about the regulations at my Catholic hospital, though I love the fact that they have daily Mass in a Chapel that is on the same floor where I deliver/recover (lol, the only way I could make it to Mass the day after delivering), and they show it on their TV’s too. Nevertheless, I saw an add in the phone book of an OB that has his office at the hospital and he offers abortions

Sisters of Charity, Buffalo, NY. :tiphat:

My third child was born in the Atlanta area at a non-religious hospital. It kids of threw me when I was asked if I’d be having a tubal. I wasn’t used to it. Also, I noticed in your profile that you joined this forum the very day my third was born.

 

[Miles_Mariae]

Thanks for the update.

Easy for him to say that women should endure the pain if childbirth when he never will have the opportunity. But I guess that’s obvious.

Yes, it is easier. Nonetheless, I do not believe that precludes me from discussing it. Moreover, upon reading the thread, you will find that I tend to agree with those who voice support for the procedure.

 

[StratusRose]

Yes, it is easier. Nonetheless, I do not believe that precludes me from discussing it. Moreover, upon reading the thread, you will find that I tend to agree with those who voice support for the procedure.

It was a moot point to begin with.