Episcopal Church and Homosexuality

[BCarpenelli]

Hello,

I read a disheartening article today in the Washington Post (link below) that seems to allude to the continued acceptance of homosexuality in the Episcopal Church. I am a Protestant (non-denom) who is on his way home to the Catholic Church (starting RCIA this fall) . Frankly, I don’t understand how a church can be so influenced by the social norms of the day that they turn their backs on scripture.

Here is a quote from the article:
“God didn’t stop talking to the church when the Bible was finished,” he said.

Just as women have emerged from the second-class status depicted in the Bible, he added, “the Spirit is teaching us that now about sexuality – that gay and lesbian people are fully children of God and should have access to all the rites of the church.”

One of the reasons I am leaving Protestantism for the RCC is because of the structure/traditional/doctrinal authority that exists in the church. That is the true blessing of the RCC that I finally realized.

Any opinions on how Homosexuality has slipped into the Episcopal Church and may start to influence other denominations as well? I recently heard that the Methodists have started to explore a softer stand as well. Is this consequence owed solely to multiple denominations without one clear direction or is society, etc to blame?

I don’t know that much about the structure of the Episcopal chruch. But I would assume that if a Pastor does not oppose this activity openly in his church (luckily mine did), then a layperson could “interpret” the issue on their own and justify it (lack of church teachings, unlike RCC).

washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A20779-2004Jun6.html

 

[Apologia100]

Authority and unity of doctrine is the reason why I came back to the Church. I still don’t understand why more of our separated bretheren don’t get it.

 

[space_ghost]

May the road rise up to meet you, may the wind be at your back, and i hope your in heaven 3 days before the devil knows your dead.

Welcome Home…

 

[arnulf]

In recent centuries the Episcopalians have been among the first to abandon traditional teachings in favor of political correctness. They were the first to endorse artificial birth control and among the first to embrace female clergy. The Episcopal Church today is a far cry from the Episcopal Church I grew up in during the 1950s! This is having a negative impact (more and more people are leaving, as I did) but they don’t seem to care.

 

[NWUArmyROTC]

I wonder if the ECUSA can even classify itself as a Christian denomination anymore. They have embraced a number of false positions because of social pressure. It is rather disheartening.

Part of the problem could be infiltration into the ECUSA and other Anglican branches. We are witnessing that same assault in the Catholic Church. Liberal groups like Future Church, CTA, Women’s Ordination Council, etc and the National (Anti)Catholic Reporter are assaulting traditional faith and morality in the name of tolerance and equality. The Institution no longer has rights, but the rights of individuals to live exactly as they want is paramount in the minds of many, and organizations and institutions that deny that are attacked.

The ECUSA minister at my university dismisses the resurrection as unimportant. I think that sums up the mainstream of ECUSA here. For liberal Christians, it is Jesus social worker that is to be revered, not Jesus Redeemer or Jesus Sanctifier. PCUSA has also fallen that way as well.

Well my two cents.

 

[AmandaPS]

BCarpenelli:

Any opinions on how Homosexuality has slipped into the Episcopal Church and may start to influence other denominations as well? I recently heard that the Methodists have started to explore a softer stand as well. Is this consequence owed solely to multiple denominations without one clear direction or is society, etc to blame?

Last month, there was a church trial within the United Methodist Church of a female pastor who had a female parter. Although the Methodist Book of Discipline says that homosexuality is incompatable with Christian teachings, she was aquitted and remains a pastor in good standing.

foxnews.com/story/0,2933,119989,00.html

I think this is an example of churches bowing down to societal norms and wanting to be “inclusive” at the expense of Truth. They don’t want to be seen as hostile to homosexuals.

 

[Calvin]

BCarpenelli:

Hello,
Any opinions on how Homosexuality has slipped into the Episcopal Church and may start to influence other denominations as well? I recently heard that the Methodists have started to explore a softer stand as well. Is this consequence owed solely to multiple denominations without one clear direction or is society, etc to blame?

Prediction: a Christian sect that ordains women to the office of presbyter or bishop, will eventually seek to condone same-sex intercourse and gay marriage.

Historically, every Protestant denomination that has decided to ordain women, 30 years (or so) later started to ordain/marry/bless homosexuals. If you look at poll data (I have some for the PCUSA and ECUSA) women priests are significantly more likely to be theologically “liberal” and significanlty less likely to be “traditional” than male priests. In a sense they have to be: female priests owe their very office to a “liberalization” of Scripture and tradition. How can they deny the same liberalization to homosexuals? No a single person who argued that the Holy Spirit lead “the church” to ordain women turned around and didn’t argue the same for blessing homosexuals and same-sex intercourse.

I think ordination of women is a mark of how a sect interprets Scripture and tradition. If the sect is willing to move on women’s ordination, it is only a matter of time before they will be willing to move on homosexuality. As the numbers of female priests and men who support female priests increase, the numbers of those who will be willing to support changing historic doctrines on homosexuality in a given sect increases. As the number of female priests increase, the number of “conservatives” active in the sect decreases because they think the ministry of female priests is invalid and will go somewhere else. These conservatives are the ones who would oppose theological innovation. Once females are ordained the clock starts ticking for a sect. Over time the numbers of “liberals” (those who see nothing wrong with same sex intercourse) will gradually increase and the numbers of “conservatives” (those who believe same sex intercourse is sinful) will decrease. Eventually the sect arrives at a “tipping point” where the “liberals” are able to change their group’s doctrines.

-C

 

[Pro_Iesu]

I heard that the episcopal/anglican church may split due to this issue just as they did with the womens ordination and contraception issues.

They are like every other denom if they don’t agree they divide. Thats why there are different degrees within the episcopal/anglican church with those who are close to catholicism and those who are like the other more liberal denoms.

May God have mercy on them.

Peace and God Bless

 

[Hans_A]

Makes me glad that Christ told us that the gates of hell will not prevail against the one true Church

 

[Poisson]

The Anglican bishops in Canada recently met and decided to defer voting on officially sanctioning same-sex “marriages” but but did vote to “affirm the sanctity” of same-sex relationships.
Frankly I’m not sure I see the difference.

 

[NWUArmyROTC]

Pro Iesu:

Thats why there are different degrees within the episcopal/anglican church with those who are close to catholicism and those who are like the other more liberal denoms.

Hopefully the Anglo-Catholics will decide it is time to come home. I am hoping that John Paul II and the Curia could manage a reconciliation with the Global South of the Anglican Communion, establish some sort of Church within a Church, like the Chaldeans or Byzantine Catholics. Be a great step in bringing the Church back together again and the differences are not so far that they can’t be overcome (provided Anglo-Catholics dominate, might be a whole other story re Evanglical Anglicans).

A lot of the “Mainstream” Protestant denominations are going this politically correct way: PCUSA which endorses Partial Birth Abortion, ELCA which is well liberal theologically, and the United Methodists (though they did hold firm on homosexuality recently). The errors of those Protestant denominations is showing through.

 

[Calvin]

NWUArmyROTC:

Hopefully the Anglo-Catholics will decide it is time to come home. I am hoping that John Paul II and the Curia could manage a reconciliation with the Global South of the Anglican Communion, establish some sort of Church within a Church, like the Chaldeans or Byzantine Catholics. Be a great step in bringing the Church back together again and the differences are not so far that they can’t be overcome (provided Anglo-Catholics dominate, might be a whole other story re Evanglical Anglicans).

I visit the Virtuosity website every day and participate in their forums. It is a gathering place for orthodox Anglican dissidents.

My understanding from the articles posted on that site is that the Global South Primates are primarily Evangelical not Anglo-Catholic. Some of the quotes I have seen from their bishops about “finding freedom in Jesus” and “the plain teachings of Scripture” sound more Evangelical to me than Anglo-Catholic.

Although it would be wonderful to see such a broad movement towards greater unity. It is hard to predict what will happen, but it seems like the conservatives are trying to get a church-within-a-church within the Anglican communion through the use of “flying bishops” rather than talking about crossing the Rubicon. I know many individuals, however, who have left Anglicanism and gone home to Rome or swam the Bosphorous.

-C

 

[Katholikos]

It’s a little-known fact that until 1930, every Protestant denomination followed the teaching of the Catholic Church that contraception was incompatible with the laws of God. Then came the Lambeth Conference of 1930 and the Episcopalians voted that contraception was allowable in certain cases. Later, they expanded that to include more “justifiable circumstances.” All other denominations began to allow contraception, and the morality of all churches began to crumble – except one.

One by one, sacred moral precepts have been crushed under social pressure in Protestant churches. Contraception led to the “sexual revolution” – sex and abortion on demand. The latest “moral insight” the Episcopalians brought to us is approval of homosexual activity. (My friend’s brother was an Episcopal priest living with his “partner” openly in the rectory.) Now it’s homosexual marriage. Don’t be shocked that after marriage is redefined as man-man or woman-woman, plural marriage is next. No form of marriage can then be forbidden under our legal system without “discrimination.”

 

[Gerry_Hunter]

Poisson:

The Anglican bishops in Canada recently met and decided to defer voting on officially sanctioning same-sex “marriages” but but did vote to “affirm the sanctity” of same-sex relationships.
Frankly I’m not sure I see the difference.

There really is none.

Background: I came back home to the Church a year ago, after worshipping with the Anglicans in New Westminster (Vancouver) BC – home of one Michael Ingham. His diocese now blesses same sex “unions”, and he has said that the next big “fight” is to have Jesus Christ seen as a (not the) way, a truth, and a life for Christians.

If you want to see the effects of the denial of the existance of a Magisterium in the church, look at the Anglicans. Some say homosexual activity is condemned in Holy Scripture; others say it was not a condemnation, and no one can authoritatively decide the question among them.

I still have struggling Anglican friends, and they indicate the actions of their General Synod (not just their bishops) was pure politics. It had nothing to do with the Faith once delivered to the Saints, which is not a big priority.

Pray for the Christian Anglicans who are caught up in that mess.

 

[RedGolum]

NWUArmyROTC:

A lot of the “Mainstream” Protestant denominations are going this politically correct way: PCUSA which endorses Partial Birth Abortion, ELCA which is well liberal theologically, and the United Methodists (though they did hold firm on homosexuality recently). The errors of those Protestant denominations is showing through.

Sadly the ELCA is more than just liberal, it is full out apostate in places! Some of the female “ministers” have abortion covered in there health plan, and a friend of mine that just started ELCA seminary has said that there are teachers that believe Jesus died not for our sins, but to show “solidarity”.

I pray for my friend often. I fear he is in a bad place for his faith.

 

[Gerry_Hunter]

Calvin:

My understanding from the articles posted on that site is that the Global South Primates are primarily Evangelical not Anglo-Catholic. Some of the quotes I have seen from their bishops about “finding freedom in Jesus” and “the plain teachings of Scripture” sound more Evangelical to me than Anglo-Catholic.
-C

With the exception of the Primate in South East Asia, who is Pentecostal in background, the rest are indeed Evangelical. Here in Canada, so too are the majority of the Anglicans who are opposing the non-Christianization of their denomination. Like the Primates, there’s a smattering of Charismatics as well in their group.

The Anglo-Catholic voice was one that seemed committted to keeping their denomination in tact and Christian, although the former tended to take priority over the latter. They are not a big force in the struggle, as a result. Their position seems to be that faithfulness to the Anglican Book of Common Prayer will solve the difficulties.

The Evangelicals are having a tough go of it, it seemed to me, because of an inherent weakness in the Evangelical approach. As does the Church, they hold that Holy Scripture is inerrant, but can’t really articulate a basis for that position. Nor do they have an authoritative interpreter of Holy Scripture. The revisionists have basically taken that position themselves, come up with their own differing interpretations, and asserted they are as valid as are the Evangelical’s interpretations. They take a very postmodern approach to truth (that it really doesn’t exist as an absolute), and the Evangelicals lack a basis for an effective reply. If there’s a moral to the story, it is that an authoritative interpreter of Holy Scripture is not an optional extra in the make-up of the Church of Jesus Christ.

Blessings,

Gerry Hunter

 

[Writer]

Great discussion… I have to rush, but we were in the Episcopal tradition until recently. The ordination of Bishop Robinson was the final straw. I have attempted to debate this issue with Episcopal Church leadership, but most don’t seem to get it. There are a few great orthodox Episcopalians (like David Virtue),but they are not in our area. My wife and I now see our time at the local Episcopal Chruch as a possible transition to the Catholic Church from the mainline Protestant denominations.

If interested, read my letter to the editor on this topic in the December 2003 issue of Christianity Today.

 

[Robert_in_SD]

A really interesting discussion. My opinion on the matter is that protestant denominations are forced to lean to the left (or the right) to attract and maintain their membership. Thus, some groups will lean left to cater to the homosexual agenda while others will lean right to cater to the conservative crowd. It is a concern driven more by econmics and public relations than by a real search for the truth. Thank God for the Catholic Church that teaches Truth with authority, even when it may be uncomfortable to some.

TFMM

 

[Moireach]

Wow wow wow, the Protestant church ARE still against homosexuality.
The Free Church of Scotland has never, and never will marry a gay couple.
Going back to catholisism because of that? Why not try going to a proper Protestant church?
There are FAR more serious issues in Catholisism.

 

[peacelight]

Hello,

I read a disheartening article today in the Washington Post (link below) that seems to allude to the continued acceptance of homosexuality in the Episcopal Church. I am a Protestant (non-denom) who is on his way home to the Catholic Church (starting RCIA this fall) . Frankly, I don’t understand how a church can be so influenced by the social norms of the day that they turn their backs on scripture.

Here is a quote from the article:
“God didn’t stop talking to the church when the Bible was finished,” he said.

Just as women have emerged from the second-class status depicted in the Bible, he added, “the Spirit is teaching us that now about sexuality – that gay and lesbian people are fully children of God and should have access to all the rites of the church.”

One of the reasons I am leaving Protestantism for the RCC is because of the structure/traditional/doctrinal authority that exists in the church. That is the true blessing of the RCC that I finally realized.

Any opinions on how Homosexuality has slipped into the Episcopal Church and may start to influence other denominations as well? I recently heard that the Methodists have started to explore a softer stand as well. Is this consequence owed solely to multiple denominations without one clear direction or is society, etc to blame?

I don’t know that much about the structure of the Episcopal chruch. But I would assume that if a Pastor does not oppose this activity openly in his church (luckily mine did), then a layperson could “interpret” the issue on their own and justify it (lack of church teachings, unlike RCC).

washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A20779-2004Jun6.html

I heard about this and my personal view is that I think the false and the true spirits beginning to take place beginning to show itself. We beginning to see the fruits. It is very sad indeed society started to walk away slowly and slowly from the teaching of the Church going with what the world wants, the will of this world and opinion etc. It is very sad. God have mercy on all of us.