Episcopal Church Draws the Line

[SpiritMeadow]

It has nothing to do with a “female priest”, it has everything to do with a denomination that stands for nothing!

Defrocking a “priest who convert to the Muslim faith” after 2 years is a real courageous stand! To draw the line when a supposed Christian priest disavows Jesus Christ and accepts the lies of a pitiful mortal man, Mohammed.

Read this for some insights into “Rev.” Katherine Ragsdale, the New Dean of the Episcopal Divinity School."

She says "ABORTION IS A BLESSING!"

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=326183

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

So you hate the Episcopal church and the Muslim faith? Why don’t you just give us a list of all you hate, and we can be done with it? Since you don’t follow either, why are you so “disgusted.” It would seem of no import to you at all, since we are all just flapping our jaws about nothing. I fail to see the reason why some people use this forum subset as their “safe” way to be nasty to people they don’t agree with.

Mark

 

[SpiritMeadow]

Darn even non-Christian faith traditions called there clergy priestesses. Off the high horse plz.

No doubt that is true, as I have alluded to before. A priestess is a woman who engages in sacred rights. But I am Christian, and I am Episcopalian, and I am telling YOU and anyone else, that my Church does not have priestesses, we have Priests, period.

 

[GKC]

Thanks, GKC. I knew you would know the answer.

Added: perhaps I should have another go at “Barchester Chronicles”.

Trollope is always worthwhile.

GKC

 

[SpiritMeadow]

There’s a difference between “nice” and “charitable”. I can be very charitable while being very mean. For example, to admonish a sinner is a charitable act.

In this case, I think that anything which could shake someone out of that hell-bound communion is perfectly charitable. Of course, if you’ve stuck around this long, there’s probably little hope.

You remind me of an experiment with electrodes done some years ago, wherein students were ordered to shock people and did so in ultimately “lethal” doses. You are in a place where apparently you feel safe in saying any abominable thing to another faith because you can get away with it. HELL_BOUND COMMUNION? You are beyond words. I would never stoop to turn you in, but I dearly hope there is a decent Roman Catholic here who will.

Actually, none of the “priests” in the Anglican Communion are priests. Anglican orders are "absolutely null and utterly void

Thankfully I could care less about your opinion on the matter.

 

[Peter_J]

There is no such thing IN YOUR TRADITION. The RCC does not own the word priest. It most certainly is gender neutral, since my tradition uses the term for both men and women ordained to the priesthood.

Seems like you just get into a stalemate there. I.e. you can say “it’s gender neutral, since my tradition uses the term for both men and women ordained to the priesthood”, and then someone else can say “it’s not gender neutral, since my tradition it implies the male gender”.

 

[Peter_J]

P.S. For the record, I completely agree that there’s a lot of Protestant-bashing on Catholic forums on the web; but I also think there’s about the same amount of Catholic-bashing on Protestant forums on the web.

 

[GKC]

“There is no such thing IN YOUR TRADITION. The RCC does not own the word priest. It most certainly is gender neutral, since my tradition uses the term for both men and women ordained to the priesthood.”

Since it’s less than 25 years old, it is less a tradition than an innovation. Or an aberration.

GKC

 

[masuwerte]

There’s a difference between “nice” and “charitable”. I can be very charitable while being very mean. For example, to admonish a sinner is a charitable act.

In this case, I think that anything which could shake someone out of that hell-bound communion is perfectly charitable. Of course, if you’ve stuck around this long, there’s probably little hope.

Actually, none of the “priests” in the Anglican Communion are priests. Anglican orders are “absolutely null and utterly void”.

The Anglican Communion isn’t a “faith tradition”. It’s an old schism, an accident of history, and a bastion of heresy.

Dauphin, I gave you the benefit of the doubt on the opening post, but now you’re just being mean. And uncharitable.

Spirit Meadow, would it be less infllamatory if RC’s would refer to “female ministers”? Even if that term is less precise, from our perspective.

 

[GKC]

Dauphin, I gave you the benefit of the doubt on the opening post, but now you’re just being mean. And uncharitable.

Spirit Meadow, would it be less infllamatory if RC’s would refer to “female ministers”? Even if that term is less precise, from our perspective.

Or, females in sacerdotal garments, as I’ve suggested.

GKC

 

[4Squarebaby]

Sounds like folk who insist on calling Black or African Americans, “negros”. It may be correct in the dictionary but only serves to let others know you want to fight.

 

[Peter_J]

I think it makes a lot of sense for Catholics (or anyone, but Catholics in particular) to speak of “Anglican/Episcopal ministers”, especially since we do not technically consider them to be real priests (excepting of course the possibility of valid orders through Old Catholic orders).

 

[GKC]

I think it makes a lot of sense for Catholics (or anyone, but Catholics in particular) to speak of “Anglican/Episcopal ministers”, especially since we do not technically consider them to be real priests (excepting of course the possibility of valid orders through Old Catholic orders).

Wouldn’t bother me.

Probably wouldn’t bother my priests, either.

GKC

 

[SpiritMeadow]

Seems like you just get into a stalemate there. I.e. you can say “it’s gender neutral, since my tradition uses the term for both men and women ordained to the priesthood”, and then someone else can say “it’s not gender neutral, since my tradition it implies the male gender”.

In any case I’m done with it. It’s nearing Holy Week, and I have no intention of engaging in this kind of ugly rhetoric any more.

I have no reason to disagree that there is bashing of Catholics elsewhere, but we are here, and well, having been RC, I expected a higher class of discussion and intellectualism, not the childish display of people who are often unchurched and simply spouting pure personal opinion. I would expect as much from them, I expected more here, and am just astounded at the utter double standard that is maintained.

I was “given points” for using a fairly innocuous term to discribe a political party. I was told I was uncharitible to an entity, for get any PERSON. I was also told i could not use the term neo-con, since that was uncharitible to unnamed politicians, yet I can show you that that is how they describe themselves. So I end up feeling that any manner of mud can be slung if one is Catholic here, but certainly not vice versa.

I cannot imagine calling the the RCC hell-bent and surviving long if I was turned in, but, heck it’s okay to say that about Episcopalians.

As I said, it’s nearly holy week, and I don’t choose to engage with this kind of unkind speech any longer.

 

[emeraldcoast]

I think it makes a lot of sense for Catholics (or anyone, but Catholics in particular) to speak of “Anglican/Episcopal ministers”, especially since we do not technically consider them to be real priests (excepting of course the possibility of valid orders through Old Catholic orders).

I honestly can not believe that I am reading this from you, PeterJ. It basically gets down to be respectful–that is it. We have Anglican/Episcopal priest. We should all learn and use the correct terms that are associated with other faiths.

God Bless!

 

[Peter_J]

I have no reason to disagree that there is bashing of Catholics elsewhere

… I would expect as much from them, I expected more here,

I guess we should all take that as a compliment.

Still, I’m afraid I don’t really get. Not to look a compliment in the mouth, but why would you expect Catholics to be more charitable than Protestants? Since you’re a Protestant yourself, I would think you would either have equal expectations for both or else expect Protestants to be more charitable than Catholics.

I cannot imagine calling the the RCC hell-bent and surviving long if I was turned in, but, heck it’s okay to say that about Episcopalians.

The unstated assumption being that you would post such a statement here. If you posted it on a Protestant website, I’d say you’d have a pretty good chance of surviving. (Which goes back to the question, why do you have higher standards for a Catholic forum like CAF, than you do for a Protestant forum?)

 

[Peter_J]

I honestly can not believe that I am reading this from you, PeterJ. It basically gets down to be respectful–that is it. We have Anglican/Episcopal priest. We should all learn and use the correct terms that are associated with other faiths.

The way I see it, a Catholic calling Anglican clergy “priests” is very much like an Anglican calling the RCC “the Catholic Church” – i.e. you don’t really believe that we are the Catholic Church, and yet you (well, some of you) call us “the Catholic Church” because that’s our preferred term. (I hope that makes sense.)

Having said that, I don’t see how it would be disrespectful to say “Anglican minister”, do you? It certainly isn’t disrespectful to say “the Roman Catholic Church”.

God Bless!

Ditto!

 

[GKC]

The way I see it, a Catholic calling Anglican clergy “priests” is very much like an Anglican calling the RCC “the Catholic Church” – i.e. you don’t really believe that we are the Catholic Church, and yet you (well, some of you) call us “the Catholic Church” because that’s our preferred term. (I hope that makes sense.)

Having said that, I don’t see how it would be disrespectful to say “Anglican minister”, do you? It certainly isn’t disrespectful to say “the Roman Catholic Church”.

Ditto!

Of course I think you guys are the Catholic Church. I also think Anglicans, Orthodox and anyone else possessing apostolic succession is, too. Since you don’t exhaust the category “Catholic Church”, for me, I use the defining adjective.

Sure, I don’t expect you to agree with me. No offense, taken or offered.

Call our clergy what you think proper, IAW what your Church teaches… If you want to discuss Apostolicae Curae, I’m your huckleberry.

GKC

*Anglicanus-Catholicus *

 

[SpiritMeadow]

Dauphin, I gave you the benefit of the doubt on the opening post, but now you’re just being mean. And uncharitable.

Spirit Meadow, would it be less infllamatory if RC’s would refer to “female ministers”? Even if that term is less precise, from our perspective.

It would, but actually I have decided it is of no matter. Those that preach hatred and divisiveness will continue nonetheless. And more to the point, if my faith is worth something, it needs no defense. It stands on its work in the community by feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, giving comfort to the imprisoned, and tending to the sick. It is reflected in the charity exhibited by its members. I have been uncharitible by falling into the trap of defending what needs no defense. Saner heads realize this, and that is all that can be expected.

Thanks for your remarks though. Have a blessed Holy Week!

 

[SpiritMeadow]

I guess we should all take that as a compliment.

Still, I’m afraid I don’t really get. Not to look a compliment in the mouth, but why would you expect Catholics to be more charitable than Protestants? Since you’re a Protestant yourself, I would think you would either have equal expectations for both or else expect Protestants to be more charitable than Catholics.

The unstated assumption being that you would post such a statement here. If you posted it on a Protestant website, I’d say you’d have a pretty good chance of surviving. (Which goes back to the question, why do you have higher standards for a Catholic forum like CAF, than you do for a Protestant forum?)

Hold over mostly from being Catholic. I suffered from the pride of thinking I was better than other faith traditions. I recall a nun very proudly announcing that “we don’t proselytize in airports and the like…people come to us.” I spent a lot of time with extremely well educated Catholics, and thus I guess grew to assume that they were a step up in their knowledge and understanding. I erroneously took that to include maturity as well.

And I didn’t assume that all Protestants were lesser. I certainly thought well of “high” churches. I had and still have difficulty with closemindedness which I find mostly in fundamentalist Protestant denominations. Those who believe that they need no church at all, but can read and understand scripture on their own are people I have a difficult time dealing with.

I consider the above with shame, and work hard now to see that I was in error and suffering from the pride of being “the best” or whatever. I find nothing in the NT that supports such arrogance. Humility is a hard thing, and I work on it more than most, since I have more than most to learn.

 

[Peter_J]

Fair enough.

And I definitely have seen Catholics post all kinds of stuff about how Catholic forums are so loving and welcoming towards Protestants, while Protestant forums are so nasty and uncharitable toward Catholics.

But then again, I’m pretty sure that I go to Protestant forums, I’ll find plenty of posts about how Protestant forums are so loving and welcoming towards Catholics, and how Catholic forums are so nasty and uncharitable toward Protestant.

I guess human nature is pretty ubiquitous.