Episcopal Church Draws the Line

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But no women selected as apostles. Hence, no women in apostolic succession.

GKC
There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
~ Galatians 3:28

I keep hearing a report about the 1976 Pontifical Biblical Commission which apparently stated there was no scriptural basis to deny women the privilege of ordination. I am going to do more research on that and get back.

It really is a weak argument against women’s ordination. I mean, extraordinarily. God won’t commend anyone in Heaven over this issue- millions suffer while we bicker over who wears a robe and says Mass. Wow.
 
Awhile ago a poster summed up the Episcopal church this way:

It’s like a snickers bar: A solid coating of chocolate on the outside resembling a devout Catholic Mass (if you ignore the priestess) and on the inside doctrines that are soft and gooey that will rot your soul out. :cool:
 
So I guess Mary Magdalene and other women were in the movement just to “support the men.” Polish their sandals, I reckon? Yeah…no. Women were intimately involved in the workings of Jesus’ movement.
They can never be in “persona Christi” at all. Forget about it.
 
~ Galatians 3:28

I keep hearing a report about the 1976 Pontifical Biblical Commission which apparently stated there was no scriptural basis to deny women the privilege of ordination. I am going to do more research on that and get back.

It really is a weak argument against women’s ordination. I mean, extraordinarily. God won’t commend anyone in Heaven over this issue- millions suffer while we bicker over who wears a robe and says Mass. Wow.
But still, no female apostles.

Go thou, and do likewise.

You can certainly find mention of the Pontifical Commission, and its opinions. But amongst those who listen to the Curia, and to the Pope, which do you think will be accorded the most authority? The advisory commission or Ordinatio Sacerdotalis?

GKC
 
They can never be in “persona Christi” at all. Forget about it.
Again, I thought “in persona Christi” has specifically to do with the actual sacrifice of the Mass.

But yawn this is why I didn’t major in theology- it’s not solving anyone’s problems. It’s best left to people in tweed jackets (which I happen to wear) debating in a comfortable setting at Oxford.

God bless Saint Francis for his timeless quote of preaching the Gospel!
 
Again, I thought “in persona Christi” has specifically to do with the actual sacrifice of the Mass.

But yawn this is why I didn’t major in theology- it’s not solving anyone’s problems. It’s best left to people in tweed jackets (which I happen to wear) debating in a comfortable setting at Oxford.

God bless Saint Francis for his timeless quote of preaching the Gospel!
The actual sacrifice of the Mass, the re-presentation of the One Sacrifice, brought to us, made present, in time, is precisely what the role of the priest is, yes. Admittedly, it is a theological point, and not one you might be familiar with, as you say.

GKC
 
The actual sacrifice of the Mass, the re-presentation of the One Sacrifice, brought to us, made present, in time, is precisely what the role of the priest is, yes. Admittedly, it is a theological point, and not one you might be familiar with, as you say.

GKC
Wunderbar. I thought I recalled that from my old days. That is the essential point of it, yes? The primary aspect of IPC?
 
Wunderbar. I thought I recalled that from my old days. That is the essential point of it, yes? The primary aspect of IPC?
With respect to the sacrament of the Eucharist, yes.

Do remember that I’m not RC.

GKC
 
Again, I thought “in persona Christi” has specifically to do with the actual sacrifice of the Mass.

But yawn this is why I didn’t major in theology- it’s not solving anyone’s problems. It’s best left to people in tweed jackets (which I happen to wear) debating in a comfortable setting at Oxford.

God bless Saint Francis for his timeless quote of preaching the Gospel!
A female “priestess” can never change the bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ.

and

A female “priestess” can never absolve anybody of their sins in the confessional.
 
Awhile ago a poster summed up the Episcopal church this way:

It’s like a snickers bar: A solid coating of chocolate on the outside resembling a devout Catholic Mass (if you ignore the priestess) and on the inside doctrines that are soft and gooey that will rot your soul out. :cool:
Your post did not go unnoticed, but I will not play in the mud with you.

May you have a blessed Holy Week!
 
Awhile ago a poster summed up the Episcopal church this way:

It’s like a snickers bar: A solid coating of chocolate on the outside resembling a devout Catholic Mass (if you ignore the priestess) and on the inside doctrines that are soft and gooey that will rot your soul out. :cool:
Oh come on!

That’s just mean. Especially during Holy Week. You don’t have to be so disrespectful. I totally think that the Episcopalian Church has major problems but i don’t see the value in specifically insulting it.
 
Oh come on!

That’s just mean. Especially during Holy Week. You don’t have to be so disrespectful. I totally think that the Episcopalian Church has major problems but i don’t see the value in specifically insulting it.
Those people that are leading the Episcopal Church are nothing but wolves in sheep’s clothing for perverting the Gospels for their own political gains.

That practicing gay Bishop Robinson is no different than an unrepentant adulterer. A mortal sin is a mortal sin.

May God, the source of all Truth, strike down every heresy.
 
but I will not play in the mud with you.
I think that’s the wisest thing I’ve read on this thread. We may not be able to stop the mudslinging that happens on the internet, but we can sure-as-heckfire choose not to engage the mudslingers in conversation.
 
Roamin_Xian,

Perhaps, as a starting point for future conversation, you could tell us what your explanation is for the fact that Christ chose 12 male Apostles? Do you subscribe to the view that Christ was only trying to avoid scandalizing his contemporaries, or some variation on that idea?
 
Those people that are leading the Episcopal Church are nothing but wolves in sheep’s clothing for perverting the Gospels for their own political gains.

That practicing gay Bishop Robinson is no different than an unrepentant adulterer. A mortal sin is a mortal sin.

May God, the source of all Truth, strike down every heresy.
Well I suppose Urban II used this type of language but is it called for here?
 
Well I suppose Urban II used this type of language but is it called for here?
The TRUTH above all else. You never turn a “blind eye” to lies and errors. NEVER no matter how many feelings are hurt.

Practicing homosexuality and Abortion are*** incompatible*** with Christianity. I don’t give a HOOT on how people try to condone them because of “feelings” too damn bad.

If you are a practicing homosexual and die before repentance and forgiveness, you are hell bound unless you are ignorant. Same thing with abortion. Hell awaits.

I don’t know much about Urban II, but the truth is the TRUTH.
 
This was rather a hurtful post for me, as a “year old” received Episcopalian. I can report that the Diocese of North Carolina is going just fine thank you, and my parish of St. Christopher’s received or confirmed 10 new people this year (largest since 1978, and four more than my inquirers class last year). The Episcopalians I know are people who believe in the Great Commission and the social justice ministry of Jesus Christ, focusing on the essentials of Christian mission. I believe in the Bible and the creeds of the Church- I don’t “fill in blanks” so to speak.

I will point out that many Catholics have “fill-in-the-blank” theology; you could say many Catholic churches have become “rotary clubs” as well then. All you have to do is look at polls discussing various topics of theology and social policy to find that many or most Catholics dissent from the Vatican line. This be a double-edged sword, my friend.

Certainly you wouldn’t claim that Tony Blair is a devout Catholic! Democratic Senators Kerry, Dodd, and Kennedy, Governors Sebelius, Richardson, and Baldacci, and Vice President Biden (among countless other elected officials with Catholic affiliation) certainly don’t make your roster of the faithful! Really want to go with the rotary club argument?

Like some of my fellow Piskys, I’m not going to stand idle and watch my church be flogged by misconceptions.
The post should not be “hurtful” at all. I would first question why you’re in a Catholic forum if you’re a relatively new Episcopalian? What do you hope to gain coming into a Catholic forum? What I said in my post was WHAT AN ANGLICAN PRIEST TOLD ME! Another poster, if you had paid attention, made the “country club” comment. I was just saying, interestingly enough, that I know several Anglicans that have felt being in the Episcopal Church led them down that path. If that “hurt” you then you get hurt awfully easily!

Your points about “fill in the blank” Catholics are dully noted and I agree with them. No argument there. In fact, Catholics are some of the most notorious Christians for buffet-style religion. But that wasn’t the point. We’re talking PARISHES and DIOCESES. Catholic parishes are more politically-active in many areas, most especially the pro-life cause and opposition to the culture of death. Episcopalian (not orthodox Anglicans) parishes tend to not want to step on any toes and “hurt” anyone politically. They take neutral and easy positions. That’s my observation. I have never seen a more silent church where the life of the unborn is concerned. And on homosexual, cohabitation, and stem cell research, they tend to be in favor by and large.

The Episcopal Church, especially as delineated and articulated by Mother Schiori, largely believes Jesus is A way, not THE way. I hear Episcopalians refer to mother goddesses, you see Buddhists becoming Episcopal bishops, an openly gay adulterer living an active life of sodomy, and generally a culture of “you believe what you want to believe, no one is here to judge you.” To accuse the Roman Church of being fill in the blank when you attend the Episcopal Church is beyond any level of irony I could ever imagine.

I commend those dioceses like Fort Worth, San Joaquin (my area), Quincy, Pittsburgh, AMiA, Cana, Common Cause Partnership, and all the Anglicans that have had the courage to leave what manyI consider a completely irrelevent, lost, pagan-minded church and at least attempt to reform Anglicanism in North America.
 
I’m not sure how much it has to do with this discussion, but yes that is a very good book. I read it about five years ago, and re-read a few months ago.
Hey Peter J,

I think it has plenty of relevence to the discussion. “The Giver” deals with political correctness and a fervent, fanatical devotion to the art of not hurting feelings. In their quest to make a utopian, feel-good, apology-laden, simpering, liberal paradise, these people create an unholy nightmare world. Some of these folks are so focused on reinventing our language for political correctness that the book would do them some good…Getting all grouchy and fired-up over the term “priestess” is a good example.
 
I guess you didn’t read my last few posts. I am done engaging in this. My Church needs no defense and I will no longer stoop to this. This rotary club member is too busy this Holy week with working on my meditation for “The Seven Last words” following our Good Friday Service and before our stations of the cross. May you have a blessed Holy Week, and I urge you to spend some time with the world humility. I have found it most enlightening, along with pride, and arrogance. I additionally find that trying to recall that Jesus is standing next to me before I open my mouth efficacious.
That you, SpiritMeadow, for the psychoanalysis and the prescription. Good thing you’re not judgmental and don’t hand down personal appraisals! I urge you to spend some time with the words “abortion,” “euthanasia,” “divorce,” “gay marriage,” “ignorance,” and “elitist.” Those are also great words.

Also, why do you feel the need to tell us that you pray the stations of the cross and go to a Good Friday service? It sounds like bragging? That’s not the “humility” that you so graciously suggested I meditate upon?🤷
 
Yes, there can definitely be a lot of hard feeling with regard to one’s former denomination.

I’m reminded of something I read not to long ago. It was a commentary (a fairly critical one) on the book “Orthodoxy Revisited: Contrasting the Faith and Practice of the Eastern Orthodox Church with Evangelical Doctrine” by Robert Lloyd Arnold, about his conversion from Protestantism to Orthodoxy. Anyhow, the particular line that stands out most in my mind was this: “Who wants to watch a man fall out of love with the bride of his youth? Few like to see the ex’s defamation after a messy divorce.”
Nice quote but it’s a little different from that analogy. I didn’t leave the denomination, MY DIOCESE DID! The Diocese of San Joaquin wisely told the Episcopal Church to hit the bricks. I left before they made that split. If they had split earlier, I might have stayed at that time. I have a great admiration for John-David Schofield, the Bishop of San Joaquin and many of the great people at the diocese. Some of the staff are just outstanding. I left because the national church with which they were affiliated at the time were going down what I felt to be a godless path. I have every right to say that and I still feel that way. I don’t have so much “hard feelings” as you put it, towards the diocese but their former affiliation. And I don’t have hard feelings, but real sadness to see people embracing that denomination and entering an institution that sugar-coats the culture of death and un-Christian beliefs. Let’s approach it from a less touchy-feely point of view here. Perhaps a man walks through a forest and stepped in a bear trap, having to have his foot amputated. Maybe he wants to warn others of that trail and to take a different one! Mentioning the bleeding foot and the blood and guts sometimes is just part of the tale…
 
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