Episcopal Church: What happened?

[ByzCathCantor]

The Antiochian Orthodox Church in America and the OCA are far from ethnic enclaves. You have no idea what you are talking about.

And the Byzantine-Ruthenian Church, which sometimes to the confusion of many purposely adapted its name in America to Byzantine rather than the customary Greek-Catholic, is certainly far beyond its Eastern European roots, as well. We have more Italian-Americans and former RCs in our parish than “nasi” (“ours”, as my great-grandmother would have said in her day).

Use of vernacular language, following Vatican II, IMO certainly paved the way for diversity in these churches.

While there are some EC churches where the “native” language is still popularly used, most “non-natives” seem to find this an added attraction as opposed to an exclusionary impediment.

 

[Anna_Scott]

It was a very painful decision. I started RCIA three different times, and chickened-out, before going through with it.

I never considered myself that much of a conservative. What I was, and am, is a believer in the centrality of the Eucharist in Christian life, and I felt this less and less the case in my new diocese. I tried several other parishes, and they all came-up wanting, in part, because the homilies I heard often bordered on heresy ( I even heard the word ‘magic’ used one Sunday.)

The worst part was the intolerance on the part of the liberals. Every time I questioned anything, I was looked-at as some sort of right-wing lunatic, which I certainly am not. When I tried to schedule a confession, and I was repeated put-off, or offered counseling in its place. When I suggested that I thought abortion was wrong, I was told that this was a ‘fallen and imperfect world’. (Really? Does that apply to murder and rape, as well?)

I won’t even discuss the response to my stating a belief in Transubstantiation. It involved being referred to the 39 Articles (which are not Canonically binding, in any event).

martininthefiel,

Sounds like you went through many trials before deciding to convert to Catholicism; and it breaks my heart to hear it.

I think your posts and my posts clearly demonstrate that Episcopal Dioceses, and even Parishes, can differ to an extreme degree. So, sweeping statements about TEC are rarely accurate.

Again, it’s complicated.

Peace,
Anna

 

[Anna_Scott]

Actually, there are “high” Lutherans that believe all that you do, but really there’s no need to go searching for them when you have all you want where you are.

Della,
I didn’t know that.

I have a friend (high church Lutheran background) who does not believe in the perpetual virginity of the Blessed Virgin Mary, her intercession for us, or even Communion of the Saints.

Glad to know that some Lutherans do.

Anna

 

[martininthefiel]

martininthefiel,

Sounds like you went through many trials before deciding to convert to Catholicism; and it breaks my heart to hear it.

I think your posts and my posts clearly demonstrate that Episcopal Dioceses, and even Parishes, can differ to an extreme degree. So, sweeping statements about TEC are rarely accurate.

Again, it’s complicated.

Peace,
Anna

Flannery O’Connor once said, “Scratch an Episcopalian, and you never know quite what you’ll find.”

I actually started in a low church parish–Trinity, Copley Square, Boston. It was my involvement with the Cowley Fathers in the 1980’s that pushed me toward Anglo-Catholicism. Frankly, prior to that, I clearly considered myself a Protestant, and wanted little to do with high church practice.

 

[Anna_Scott]

Flannery O’Connor once said, “Scratch an Episcopalian, and you never know quite what you’ll find.”

Yes. We are like a “box of chocolates.”

I actually started in a low church parish–Trinity, Copley Square, Boston. It was my involvement with the Cowley Fathers in the 1980’s that pushed me toward Anglo-Catholicism. Frankly, prior to that, I clearly considered myself a Protestant, and wanted little to do with high church practice.

Your journey has been an interesting one. I still wonder where I will be in 10 years. Will TEC have imploded by then. . . .Difficult to say. I suppose the real question is whether or not Christians with such different beliefs can remain in communion with one another.

Peace,
Anna

 

[Della]

Della,
I didn’t know that.

I have a friend (high church Lutheran background) who does not believe in the perpetual virginity of the Blessed Virgin Mary, her intercession for us, or even Communion of the Saints.

Glad to know that some Lutherans do.

Anna

Yes, they stick more closely to Luther’s teachings rather than paring away doctrines that divided Luthranism over the centuries into various synods, and even within those synods doctrines vary from “parish” to “parish” (some are too loosely associated to call them parishes).

 

[Anna_Scott]

Yes, they stick more closely to Luther’s teachings rather than paring away doctrines that divided Luthranism over the centuries into various synods, and even within those synods doctrines vary from “parish” to “parish” (some are too loosely associated to call them parishes).

Della,
The diversity sounds somewhat akin to that in TEC.

Peace,
Anna

 

[martininthefiel]

Your journey has been an interesting one. I still wonder where I will be in 10 years. Will TEC have imploded by then. . . .Difficult to say. I suppose the real question is whether or not Christians with such different beliefs can remain in communion with one another.

Peace,
Anna

Somehow, it always has.

I pray that TEC will survive. I recognise that the Roman Church is not everyone’s cuppa, and there is certainly room for diversity in the Body of Christ. At its heart, there is very little doctrinal difference between TEC and the Roman Church. My fear is that the differences that do exist are becoming greater than they were 25-30 years ago.

As recently as a decade ago, The ABC said that he thought the COE and RCC should consider reuniting. In the current state of affairs that would be quite impossible.

When I tell Catholic priests that I used to be an Episcopalian, mostly they comment on how similar we are. It is the trend away from those similarities that got to me. I started to wander into Episcopal parishes that had liturgies I barely recognised–not because the words were different, but because the ideas behind them were.

I actually preferred the 1979 Prayer Book to the 1928, so change alone was never an issue for me. The newer book was closer to Catholic. If the 'experimental liturgies I’ve seen are any indication, the next book will be more Protestant in tone. I know I am in the minority, but I never cared for the ‘New Zealand Prayer Book’. Australia and NZ are both notoriously ‘low church’, and the NZ book clearly reflects those preferences.

 

[Della]

Della,
The diversity sounds somewhat akin to that in TEC.

Peace,
Anna

Very much so and for much the same reasons.

 

[hn160]

Yes, they stick more closely to Luther’s teachings rather than paring away doctrines that divided Luthranism over the centuries into various synods, and even within those synods doctrines vary from “parish” to “parish” (some are too loosely associated to call them parishes).

Lutherans are free to believe or not in the perpetual virginity of the Blessed Virgin Mary but we do believe that the Virgin Mary and the Saints pray for us and in the Communion of Saints.

 

[Anna_Scott]

Lutherans are free to believe or not in the perpetual virginity of the Blessed Virgin Mary but we do believe that the Virgin Mary and the Saints pray for us and in the Communion of Saints.

Thanks. Good to know. Do you ask for Mary’s intercession or other Saints? Just wondering.

Anna