Episcopal Church Won't Stop Supporting Gay Marriage Despite Anglican Suspension, Says Bishop

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Having a committed life partner (whether or not kids are in the cards for the two) is one of the greatest gifts in the world. I would not call the desire to have that gift selfish in a pejorative sense.
The selfishness of same-sex “marriage” becomes apparent precisely at the point that adoptive children enter the picture. What about the right of a child to have both a mother and a father? Same-sex “marriage” explicitly denies that.
 
The selfishness of same-sex “marriage” becomes apparent precisely at the point that adoptive children enter the picture. What about the right of a child to have both a mother and a father? Same-sex “marriage” explicitly denies that.
I don’t believe that there is a ‘right’ to be reared by a mother and a father. Families are defined in many different ways in many different cultures. These days, in the western world, it is quite typical to see single parent families, blended families, grandparents raising children (well, mostly grandmothers), extended families that include many non-parents, adopted children, foster children, step-children, and now children with same sex parents. It’s the new normal. I wonder why we keep hoping for the Norman Rockwell ideal that just doesn’t exist much anymore.

But who says anyone has a ‘right’ to a Norman Rockwell family?
 
The selfishness of same-sex “marriage” becomes apparent precisely at the point that adoptive children enter the picture. What about the right of a child to have both a mother and a father? Same-sex “marriage” explicitly denies that.
It doesn’t deny them the loving care of two parents. And it doesn’t necessarily preclude their having a father or mother (and hopefully their love) either depending on the situation. Heck, depending on the situation it could be providing them with loving parents they’d otherwise be denied completely.

When you consider how many children are raised with one or no loving parents in this world, including many who on paper have a father or mother but whom do nothing to actually love or care for the child, I’d consider any instance of a child having two loving parents regardless of gender a big win. 👍
 
It doesn’t deny them the loving care of two parents.
I’ll grant that two loving parents are better than one. But by that measure, why stop at two? Why not three (or more) loving parents?

I can’t think of a single pro-same-sex “marriage” argument that can not also be applied to polygamy.
 
I’ll grant that two loving parents are better than one. But by that measure, why stop at two? Why not three (or more) loving parents?

I can’t think of a single pro-same-sex “marriage” argument that can not also be applied to polygamy.
And polygamy is perfectly acceptable in many cultures. Just not so much in our Western culture.

I have a friend who was born and raised in an Israeli kibbutz. She had many ‘parents’ and it worked out just fine. I also have a friend who basically never saw his parents - he was raised by a series of nannies and then off to boarding school. Again, families are defined in many ways.
 
I’ll grant that two loving parents are better than one. But by that measure, why stop at two? Why not three (or more) loving parents?

I can’t think of a single pro-same-sex “marriage” argument that can not also be applied to polygamy.
Many people have that today having nothing to do with polygamy be it due to multiple marriages, being raised with the assistance of grand parents, aunts, uncles, nannies, family friends formally and informally.

And your argument ignores the fact that same sex marriage is the union of two consenting equal adults in a loving a committed relationship just as with heterosexual marriage. You can’t make that argument for Polygamy.
 
The selfishness of same-sex “marriage” becomes apparent precisely at the point that adoptive children enter the picture. What about the right of a child to have both a mother and a father? Same-sex “marriage” explicitly denies that.
As I noted above, all marriage is selfish to some extent. I cannot stretch my imagination far enough to call two married adults who adopt a child selfish. My perception of people who adopt is that they are heroes and that we need more of them in this world.

It’s heartbreaking to think of children who have no one. We cannot undo the damage that took a child’s mother and father, but to be able to put such a child in a home with two responsible adults committed to raising him/her is a great mercy.

My goddaughter was adopted from China. She was left in a vegetable stand when she was one day old.

May God continue to bless adoptive parents!
 
I personally think it’s highly doubtful that schism will happen. What I suspect will happen is that the fuller Anglican communion will follow in TEC’s footsteps on this issue.
I really doubt that. The global Anglican communion is more in agreement with breakaway Episcopalian congregations than with the leadership. If Anglicans go all the way down that path they will be committing suicide, just as TEC has done: beliefnet.com/Faiths/Home-Page-News-and-Views/Why-is-the-Episcopal-church-near-collapse.aspx?p=1
 
I don’t believe that there is a ‘right’ to be reared by a mother and a father. Families are defined in many different ways in many different cultures. These days, in the western world, it is quite typical to see single parent families, blended families, grandparents raising children (well, mostly grandmothers), extended families that include many non-parents, adopted children, foster children, step-children, and now children with same sex parents. It’s the new normal. I wonder why we keep hoping for the Norman Rockwell ideal that just doesn’t exist much anymore.

But who says anyone has a ‘right’ to a Norman Rockwell family?
I believe every child has that right, because that is how God defined the family in the bible. It may have been polygynous at times, but the child still knew who ‘its’ mother was. The current ‘normal’ is a social disaster, and the Western world is suffering for it.
 
I really doubt that. The global Anglican communion is more in agreement with breakaway Episcopalian congregations than with the leadership. If Anglicans go all the way down that path they will be committing suicide, just as TEC has done: beliefnet.com/Faiths/Home-Page-News-and-Views/Why-is-the-Episcopal-church-near-collapse.aspx?p=1
You do realize that article is well over 4 years old right?

Episcopal Church is still here and at least in my neck of the woods not doing too badly. At least no worse than Catholicism and mainline Protestantism. TEC hasn’t “committed suicide” any more than any other mainline protestant branch has done in recent years (or Catholicism quite frankly in the US if discount immigrant members (and of course those Catholics who are no longer really Catholics).

Also when reading an article, consider the source. Beliefnet was sold by Fox to a pair of companies that are Fundamental Evangelical Christian mouthpieces back in 2010. So of course that informs their agenda and their “reporting” which is decidedly anti-mainline protestant, and in particular more “liberal” churches such as ELCA, UCC and TEC. The matters that article deals with have largely be dealt with and TEC is still here and functioning quite well thank you very much.
 
Wow, I have to step in here. There is almost 100% chance of a formal split if the suspension against TEC is not lifted. That means up to 75% of Anglicans will leave the “Anglican Communion”.

Polygamy in Africa is only allowed for converts who already had multiple wives before their conversion. Once converted, they are not allowed more wives. That is the clear Biblical example. What would you want them to do, make them divorce? No clergy, to my knowledge, have polygamous marriages.
I’m reluctant to give a firm answer to that, but at least I think they should tell them that what they are doing is wrong.
Well, thankfully you don’t frequent some of the forums I do.
I don’t either. Pretty much just Catholic and Orthodox forums.

I wonder if lightening would strike me down if I went on a different forum.

😉
 
Erich, I don’t mean to be nosy but I saw your posts and am curious what your religion is?
 
Many people have that today having nothing to do with polygamy be it due to multiple marriages, being raised with the assistance of grand parents, aunts, uncles, nannies, family friends formally and informally.

And your argument ignores the fact that same sex marriage is the union of two consenting equal adults in a loving a committed relationship just as with heterosexual marriage. You can’t make that argument for Polygamy.
Yes but you should know by now polygamy is always the “go to” argument when arguing against the union of 2 consenting adults in a loving committed monogamous relationship if the adults happen to be of the same gender.
 
I don’t believe that there is a ‘right’ to be reared by a mother and a father. Families are defined in many different ways in many different cultures. These days, in the western world, it is quite typical to see single parent families, blended families, grandparents raising children (well, mostly grandmothers), extended families that include many non-parents, adopted children, foster children, step-children, and now children with same sex parents. It’s the new normal. I wonder why we keep hoping for the Norman Rockwell ideal that just doesn’t exist much anymore.

But who says anyone has a ‘right’ to a Norman Rockwell family?
Yes it frustrates me all this talk all the time about 1 ideal family. I was raised by a single parent and I actually enjoyed my childhood very much. I never thought I was denied my right. I don’t get it actually.
 
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