Episcopal Diocese of South Carolina leaves the Episcopal Church

[Usbek_de_Perse]

Please! You are giving Communism a bad name.

Looks to me that someone doesn’t like the mainstream liberalized theology of the Episcopal Church of the USA being called Communists…

I don’t much approve of stating such a comparison the way it was done by BobCatholic… but I can agree with the underlying sentiment that they’re adopting a bad subset of socialist values.

 

[Aramis]

Where would you have faithful Episcopalians go for orthodox Christianity?

Ideally? The Church in Communion with Rome. Failing that, The Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Assyrian Church of the East, or the Armenian Apostolic Orthodox.

The Catholic, Antiochian Orthodox, and Russian Orthodox all have liturgies specifically designed for use by former Anglicans. All three are most appealing to the High-Church type Anglicans.

The Diocese of SC, however, is supposedly pretty much evangelical protestant type Anglicanism (Low Church), not “catholic-light” type Anglicanism (High Church).

 

[GKC]

Ideally? The Church in Communion with Rome. Failing that, The Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Assyrian Church of the East, or the Armenian Apostolic Orthodox.

The Catholic, Antiochian Orthodox, and Russian Orthodox all have liturgies specifically designed for use by former Anglicans. All three are most appealing to the High-Church type Anglicans.

The Diocese of SC, however, is supposedly pretty much evangelical protestant type Anglicanism (Low Church), not “catholic-light” type Anglicanism (High Church).

The real issue, for orthodox Anglicans, is that they believe they are ordaining women priests. +Lawrence is the best that was left in TEC, and he fought a good fight on many fronts. But I could not, myself, worship in his diocese.

GKC

Anglicanus-Catholicus, posterus traditus Anglicanus

 

[Contarini]

TEC-USA is not entirely Socially Liberal - it’s more Libertarian from what I’ve seen - opposed to social programs and tax-funded initiatives

I have absolutely no idea where you get this from. I’m sure there are some economic libertarians in the Episcopal Church, but the official policies of TEC are very strongly in favor of social programs–definitely not libertarian at all.

mildly pro-homosexuality, and pro-abortion, pro-contraception.

I’m not sure why you put “mildly” in front of pro-homosexuality and not in front of pro-abortion. Both terms are a bit dubious, but the former would apply far more clearly than the latter.

Edwin

 

[Aramis]

I have absolutely no idea where you get this from. I’m sure there are some economic libertarians in the Episcopal Church, but the official policies of TEC are very strongly in favor of social programs–definitely not libertarian at all.

I’m not sure why you put “mildly” in front of pro-homosexuality and not in front of pro-abortion. Both terms are a bit dubious, but the former would apply far more clearly than the latter.

Edwin

Because there is no “mildly” about pro-murder. Abortion is murder.

 

[PuddleJumper]

Protestantism is dying out as everyone knew it would eventually. In fifty to a hundred years episcopal/anglicans won’t exist anymore. Fortunately many are coming home to Truth in Catholicism. All of protestantism, historically, is man made. Only Christ’s One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church was created by Jesus Christ Himself. When He creates One Church and calls everyone to unity, it’s not surprising to see man made churches crumble and fail. For Christendom to be re-united again all of protestantism and non denominationalism must and certainly will fail. The sooner they do the better, because all the people in those groups will eventually find their way to truth and the most intimate relationship with God that one can find in this world. And that is through receiving Him in His Sacraments at His Church. Especially reconciliation! And the Eucharist as a mainstay.

This is totally untrue and I know it first hand. Anglicanism (although tepid at best in America) is blossoming strongly in the Southern regions of the world and in African countries. The Episcopal church is hardly any kind of a representative of Anglicanism with less members in America than there are Muslims here. BUT, there are 25 Million Anglicans IN CHURCH in Uganda on a given Sunday morning. We’re not talking about just on the books, but actually 25 million active Anglican worshippers in church on a given Sunday. God is present in the Southern Cone and in Africa these days in a fervant way.

 

[ltwin]

Some interesting developments since the Diocese has left in October. The Episcopal Church is in the process of organizing a “continuing diocese.” The “continuing diocese” has scheduled a diocesan convention tomorrow (Jan. 25) and is expected to elect a provisional bishop, Charles Glenn vonRosenberg, the retired Episcopal Bishop of East Tennessee.

More interesting, I think, is that the departing diocese has won its first victory in court. A South Carolina judge has issued a restraining order against the Episcopal Church, which prevents the Episcopal Church and its “continuing diocese” from using the registered names of the diocese and its seal. The restraining order is temporary and another court hearing is set for February 1 and more litigation is likely.

Significantly, this means that when the Episcopal Church’s “continuing diocese” meets to organize itself it will not be able to call itself the Episcopal Diocese of South Carolina.

 

[pablope]

Some interesting developments since the Diocese has left in October. The Episcopal Church is in the process of organizing a “continuing diocese.” The “continuing diocese” has scheduled a diocesan convention tomorrow (Jan. 25) and is expected to elect a provisional bishop, Charles Glenn vonRosenberg, the retired Episcopal Bishop of East Tennessee.

Significantly, this means that when the Episcopal Church’s “continuing diocese” meets to organize itself it will not be able to call itself the Episcopal Diocese of South Carolina.

What is a “continuing diocese”? I have never heard this before.

 

[GKC]

Some interesting developments since the Diocese has left in October. The Episcopal Church is in the process of organizing a “continuing diocese.” The “continuing diocese” has scheduled a diocesan convention tomorrow (Jan. 25) and is expected to elect a provisional bishop, Charles Glenn vonRosenberg, the retired Episcopal Bishop of East Tennessee.

More interesting, I think, is that the departing diocese has won its first victory in court. A South Carolina judge has issued a restraining order against the Episcopal Church, which prevents the Episcopal Church and its “continuing diocese” from using the registered names of the diocese and its seal. The restraining order is temporary and another court hearing is set for February 1 and more litigation is likely.

Significantly, this means that when the Episcopal Church’s “continuing diocese” meets to organize itself it will not be able to call itself the Episcopal Diocese of South Carolina.

Or use the Diocesan Seal. Both of which they had been doing, until yesterday afternoon. It is part of their plan to continue what the gracious Katherine has been doing to other dioceses/parishes that have departed the association of dioceses known as the Episcopal Church; appropriate their intellectual and real property. In SC, the odds of doing that are not good.

The use of the term “continuing” is ironic, given the origin of the Continuing Anglican movement.

GKC

posterus traditus Anglicanus

 

[GKC]

What is a “continuing diocese”? I have never heard this before.

It is a neologism, that the TEC is using, in this case, and (IIRC) in the case of the 4 other dioceses that left TEC. It implies that the dioceses that left are not, in fact, the diocese that was a part of TEC. The rump diocese formed from any individuals/parishes who did not agree to leave is the “continuing” diocese; it continues with the TEC. The other side of the argument is that the rump diocese is a new creation. Since the Diocese of South Carolina is a registered corporation under the laws of SC, no other individual or entity can use their name and unique emblems.So the continuing diocese lost the first round of what is going to be a protracted legal battle for the name, the assets and the property of the Diocese of SC.

GKC

 

[ltwin]

What is a “continuing diocese”? I have never heard this before.

The majority of the Episcopal Diocese of South Carolina has left the Episcopal Church.

The minority of parishes that will remain with the Episcopal Church are reorganizing as the “continuing” diocese, as in “we are continuing within the Episcopal Church.” The continuing diocese will try to take the Corporate identity and property (along with parish property) from the majority that has left.

The continuing diocese believes that because the Episcopal Church recognizes it, that South Carolina courts should defer to the Episcopal Church and violate its own corporate laws.

 

[GKC]

The majority of the Episcopal Diocese of South Carolina has left the Episcopal Church.

The minority of parishes that will remain with the Episcopal Church are reorganizing as the “continuing” diocese, as in “we are continuing within the Episcopal Church.” The continuing diocese will try to take the Corporate identity and property (along with parish property) from the majority that has left.

The continuing diocese believes that because the Episcopal Church recognizes it, that South Carolina courts should defer to the Episcopal Church and violate its own corporate laws.

Which won’t happen.

GKC

 

[ltwin]

Which won’t happen.

GKC

Yeah. South Carolina courts in the past have upheld neutral principles of law (which means they will look at actual corporate documents and property deeds rather than defer to the “hierarchical authority” of the Episcopal Church). If they continue this approach, I find it hard to believe that they will side with the Episcopal Church (TEC) or any minority diocese it sets up.

According to the actual Diocese of South Carolina, 44 of the 71 parishes in the diocese have sided with the actual diocese. 16 have chosen to stay with TEC. 11 are undecided. Millions of dollars are at stake.

 

[GKC]

Yeah. South Carolina courts in the past have upheld neutral principles of law (which means they will look at actual corporate documents and property deeds rather than defer to the “hierarchical authority” of the Episcopal Church). If they continue this approach, I find it hard to believe that they will side with the Episcopal Church (TEC) or any minority diocese it sets up.

According to the actual Diocese of South Carolina, 44 of the 71 parishes in the diocese have sided with the actual diocese. 16 have chosen to stay with TEC. 11 are undecided. Millions of dollars are at stake.

Hundreds of millions, and the basic principle of law and justice. +Lawrence is as good as TEC had left. Naturally, he was out of step.

It was the decision of the SC Supreme Court in the St. Andrews, Mt Pleasant case, back in 2010, that officially killed the Dennis Canon in SC.

GKC

 

[GKC]

Hundreds of millions, and the basic principle of law and justice. +Lawrence is as good as TEC had left. Naturally, he was out of step.

It was the decision of the SC Supreme Court in the St. Andrews, Mt Pleasant case, back in 2010, that officially killed the Dennis Canon in SC.

GKC

Aw, drat. That was really All Saints, Pawley’s Island, in 2009.

GKC

 

[Indifferently]

Hasn’t dear Katherine bankrupted the Episcopal Church with all this litigation?

 

[GKC]

Hasn’t dear Katherine bankrupted the Episcopal Church with all this litigation?

Naw, not yet. TEC has deep pockets, even if fewer faces.

Estimated total bill for the gracious Katherine’s litigious urges: $24 million, give or take a parish or two.

The gracious K isn’t saying, though.

GKC

 

[ltwin]

Naw, not yet. TEC has deep pockets, even if fewer faces.

Estimated total bill for the gracious Katherine’s litigious urges: $24 million, give or take a parish or two.

The gracious K isn’t saying, though.

GKC

All this at a time when the Episcopal Church nationally, at diocese level, and at parish level is feeling the effects of the economic downturn. Budgets at all levels are being slashed. The Church Center in New York City has been mortgaged, and the General Convention has voted to sale it, though know date has been set yet.

And when you look at individual parishes, many of these have been surviving on endowments. Now, however, those endowments are beginning to run dry.

 

[Crescentinus]

All this at a time when the Episcopal Church nationally, at diocese level, and at parish level is feeling the effects of the economic downturn. Budgets at all levels are being slashed. The Church Center in New York City has been mortgaged, and the General Convention has voted to sale it, though know date has been set yet.

And when you look at individual parishes, many of these have been surviving on endowments. Now, however, those endowments are beginning to run dry.

And if I recall correctly, that tends to exacerbate the other problems within Episcopalianism.

 

[Izdaari]

I have absolutely no idea where you get this from. I’m sure there are some economic libertarians in the Episcopal Church, but the official policies of TEC are very strongly in favor of social programs–definitely not libertarian at all.

I’m not sure why you put “mildly” in front of pro-homosexuality and not in front of pro-abortion. Both terms are a bit dubious, but the former would apply far more clearly than the latter.

Edwin

We are indeed a minority in TEC, but we libertarians (and Libertarians – I am a Libertarian Party member) do exist within it. I think libertarians who are Christians find TEC congenial because it isn’t overtly political and because it allows all more or less orthodox Christian beliefs.