episcopal

[boog123]

thanks for all your replies

 

[cathgal]

what other wrongs do you feel about the episcopal church.

That they’re really screwed in matter of faith :coffeeread:

 

[Nella]

This is a well crafted statement. Its cleverness comes into sharper focus when one realizes that, on the showing of its history, and recent history in particular, no one, but no one, speaks for “all of Anglicanism.”

I take this as a compliment and thank God for it.

 

[Gerry_Hunter]

I take this as a compliment and thank God for it.

Do you also give thanks for the recent history of that troubled denomination, breaking apart as it is, because no one in it speaks with any God-given authority?

Robin WIlliams said he liked being Episcopalian because no matter what an Episcopalian believes, he can find another who believes it, too. On stage, that produced laughs, but in actuallity, few are laughing.

Blessings,

Gerry

 

[Aramis]

The lack of a valid succession in ordinations, meaning the ordinations are lacking the power of the holy spirit.
The lack of a coherent statement of belief that is accepted across the Anglican Communion.
The Females being ordained past the deaconate.
Openly practicing homosexual individuals being “ordained” to the priesthood and bishoprics
The origin of the Church of England, and its giving birth to the Anglican union.
The lack of any sense to defrock wildly divergent bishops and/or priests.
The “blessing” of Homosexual unions to a supposed marital state.
The lack of a definite belief in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist during AND AFTER the Mass.

 

[Nella]

Do you also give thanks for the recent history of that troubled denomination, breaking apart as it is, because no one in it speaks with any God-given authority?

Robin WIlliams said he liked being Episcopalian because no matter what an Episcopalian believes, he can find another who believes it, too. On stage, that produced laughs, but in actuallity, few are laughing.

Blessings,

Gerry

Oh, but tons are judging and should they?? Your church has by your own definition, “God given authority” and what has happened?? You have decades of child sexual abuse going on in your clery which never gets handled until many lives are ripped to shreds and it costs hundreds of millions of dollars in law suits. So now some good Catholic people are forced out of their bankrupted diocese and such. Insted of dealing with the problem, the “authority” just moves the problems from diocese to diocese. Yes, we have a very liberally led Episcopal church here in the US that I am embarrased to say thinks that it is in God’s favor to unionize same sex couples and ordain actively gay clergy and believe me, I am one of many angry Anglicans about that, but look at what the consequences will be come Sept. 30. They are facing being kicked out of the Anglican Communion and foced to walk apart which will make them just another split off Protestant church in which there are thousands. I won’t be one of them as I and my parish will hold firm to the teachings of the Anglican church. Now how is that for authority?? Authority is only good when it makes the decisions that are the right ones.

 

[Nella]

The lack of a valid succession in ordinations, meaning the ordinations are lacking the power of the holy spirit.
The lack of a coherent statement of belief that is accepted across the Anglican Communion.
The Females being ordained past the deaconate.
Openly practicing homosexual individuals being “ordained” to the priesthood and bishoprics
The origin of the Church of England, and its giving birth to the Anglican union.
The lack of any sense to defrock wildly divergent bishops and/or priests.
The “blessing” of Homosexual unions to a supposed marital state.
The lack of a definite belief in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist during AND AFTER the Mass.

You are assuming an awful lot here and I dare say much of it is flatly wrong.

 

[Aramis]

You are assuming an awful lot here and I dare say much of it is flatly wrong.

Many of these issues are taken from a recent interview of the Archbishop of Canterbury. The nominal head of the Anglican union himself noted that there isn’t a uniform code of belief. He also hopes that, next year, the AU doesn’t disolve over doctrinal issues, since the AU has no authority other than to include or exclude its members.

There are openly gay men and women in AU member “provinces” including the US and Canada who are priests, and at least one bishop. So sayeth the Abp of Canterbury.

This is a problem. So sayeth the Abp of Canterbury.

THere is a lack of unified beliefs enforced by the AU. So sayeth the Abp of Canterbury.

(time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1630227,00.html)

No, Nella, Open your eyes and see when truth presents itself.

 

[rr1213]

Oh, but tons are judging and should they?? Your church has by your own definition, “God given authority” and what has happened?? You have decades of child sexual abuse going on in your clery which never gets handled until many lives are ripped to shreds and it costs hundreds of millions of dollars in law suits. So now some good Catholic people are forced out of their bankrupted diocese and such. Insted of dealing with the problem, the “authority” just moves the problems from diocese to diocese. Yes, we have a very liberally led Episcopal church here in the US that I am embarrased to say thinks that it is in God’s favor to unionize same sex couples and ordain actively gay clergy and believe me, I am one of many angry Anglicans about that, but look at what the consequences will be come Sept. 30. They are facing being kicked out of the Anglican Communion and foced to walk apart which will make them just another split off Protestant church in which there are thousands. I won’t be one of them as I and my parish will hold firm to the teachings of the Anglican church. Now how is that for authority?? Authority is only good when it makes the decisions that are the right ones.

Unfortunately, the difference between the two Churches is that while the Catholic Church has had difficulty (as have other Churches) with the Priest pedophile issue, having handled the matter quite poorly, the Catholic Church has not come out and called pedophilia “blessed”. In contrast, the Episcopal Church has openly and purposefully ordained an actively homosexual man as a Bishop in the spirit that “God is doing a new thing amongst us”. It has also flirted with, and some dioceses have consumated, the abominaton of blessing homosexual unions. So, in the first case, it’s a Church not living up to its own standards while, in the second case, its a Church calling blessed what God has prohibited.

Also, hate to say it, but September will be more of the same. Remember the Primates meeting? The Windor Report? Tanzania? It doesn’t end…it just goes on and on and on with the Episcopal Church putting its thumb into the eye of the Anglican Communion and the Anglican Communion saying “thank you, please give me another.”

 

[GKC]

Unfortunately, the difference between the two Churches is that while the Catholic Church has had difficulty (as have other Churches) with the Priest pedophile issue, having handled the matter quite poorly, the Catholic Church has not come out and called pedophilia “blessed”. In contrast, the Episcopal Church has openly and purposefully ordained an actively homosexual man as a Bishop in the spirit that “God is doing a new thing amongst us”. It has also flirted with, and some dioceses have consumated, the abominaton of blessing homosexual unions. So, in the first case, it’s a Church not living up to its own standards while, in the second case, its a Church calling blessed what God has prohibited.

Also, hate to say it, but September will be more of the same. Remember the Primates meeting? The Windor Report? Tanzania? It doesn’t end…it just goes on and on and on with the Episcopal Church putting its thumb into the eye of the Anglican Communion and the Anglican Communion saying “thank you, please give me another.”

Amen. And the Communion has clothed (here and there) females in sacerdotal and episcopal garments. Bad form.

GKC

 

[Nella]

Unfortunately, the difference between the two Churches is that while the Catholic Church has had difficulty (as have other Churches) with the Priest pedophile issue, having handled the matter quite poorly, the Catholic Church has not come out and called pedophilia “blessed”. In contrast, the Episcopal Church has openly and purposefully ordained an actively homosexual man as a Bishop in the spirit that “God is doing a new thing amongst us”. It has also flirted with, and some dioceses have consumated, the abominaton of blessing homosexual unions. So, in the first case, it’s a Church not living up to its own standards while, in the second case, its a Church calling blessed what God has prohibited.

Also, hate to say it, but September will be more of the same. Remember the Primates meeting? The Windor Report? Tanzania? It doesn’t end…it just goes on and on and on with the Episcopal Church putting its thumb into the eye of the Anglican Communion and the Anglican Communion saying “thank you, please give me another.”

Do you think that the people who were defiled by those Catholic priests care what the church has to say about pedophilia now?? A little too little and a heck of alot too late.

 

[Nella]

Many of these issues are taken from a recent interview of the Archbishop of Canterbury. The nominal head of the Anglican union himself noted that there isn’t a uniform code of belief. He also hopes that, next year, the AU doesn’t disolve over doctrinal issues, since the AU has no authority other than to include or exclude its members.

There are openly gay men and women in AU member “provinces” including the US and Canada who are priests, and at least one bishop. So sayeth the Abp of Canterbury.

This is a problem. So sayeth the Abp of Canterbury.

THere is a lack of unified beliefs enforced by the AU. So sayeth the Abp of Canterbury.

(time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1630227,00.html)

No, Nella, Open your eyes and see when truth presents itself.

Again, you seem to be missing the entire concept here and i am quite sure that you just simply do not understand what you have just stated here. Those openly gay priests and the bishop are in the Episcopal church in the US and in Canada which is a PART of the worldwide Anglican church. These folks are very close to being cut off from the worldwide church. You don’t seem to acknowlege this or don’t want to. This is NOT the practice of the Anglican church worldwide and to that note you and I seem to be in full agreement on this. Thank God both of our churches do not condone this.

 

[rr1213]

Those openly gay priests and the bishop are in the Episcopal church in the US and in Canada which is a PART of the worldwide Anglican church. These folks are very close to being cut off from the worldwide church.

You are an optimist. It’s not going to happen.

 

[Dauphin]

Do you think that the people who were defiled by those Catholic priests care what the church has to say about pedophilia now?? A little too little and a heck of alot too late.

Do you have any idea how petty you appear, using this issue to defend outright heresy in the anglican church?

The sins of certain priests have absolutely nothing to do with faith and morals. The Catholic Church hasn’t changed its views on homosexuality or pedophilia. It remains completely opposed.

You’re using this issue as a smokescreen to distract people from the complete apostacy of your “communion”.

 

[THutch04]

As far as Episcopalians, I really dislike the leadership. I’ve had issues with their leadership long before Schori was elected. That’s a big part of the reason why I left in 2003. The people running the Church have such an agenda and don’t listen to the others who for good reasons feel they’re very out of line. I question why Schori was even elected as Presiding Bishop anyway, because in my opinion she wasn’t as qualified as some of the others. I do wonder if it was to push an agenda. There are leaders who publicly deny essential Christian beliefs, that as LEADERS they should not be denying, but rather HELPING the laity in the Church who may have trouble with those teachings.

 

[SteveLy]

TEC at the 06 General Convention also refused to approve a resolution which upheld the authority of scripture and approved another which said they would work towards filling every area and office of the church with LGT peoples.

The biggest problem I believe is that to get to a point where the second resolution seems like a good idea, a church must have decades of ignoring the sanctity and authority of scripture which TEC and many main line denominations have. They long ago substituted a “social gospel” for the Gospel. A secondary effect of ignoring scripture is that they dismiss an ultimate authority on matters of doctrine and teaching which is leading to the aformentioned split.

Just a demonstration for those not familiar with the Anglican Communion. Every 10 years the Archbishop of Canterbury holds the Lambeth Conference where the bishops of the Communion are invited to meet with him. The invitations for next years conference were supposed to be rsvp’d by the end of July. 660 of the 880 invitations have not been returned in protest by bishops holding out to see what happens in September. Could anyone imagine the Pope requesting the presence of bishops and them refusing? Only once, then their replacements would show up!

 

[Nella]

Do you have any idea how petty you appear, using this issue to defend outright heresy in the anglican church?

The sins of certain priests have absolutely nothing to do with faith and morals. The Catholic Church hasn’t changed its views on homosexuality or pedophilia. It remains completely opposed.

You’re using this issue as a smokescreen to distract people from the complete apostacy of your “communion”.

Your churches defilement against its children is as real as the horrific crime itself. Don’t you dare call it a smokescreen for anything. It is what it is and the truth is, they didn’t deal with it when it was manifesting. I couldn’t care less what the church says about it. It happened in living colr and the church ducked its responsibility. Don’t attempt to draw attention elsewhere.

Gay unions and ordaining actively homosexual clergy is against Anglican church teaching. Just try and drag that wet dog onto the carpet of my church and see what our priest would do.

 

[d_mccull_au]

Nella,

There has been issues around pedophelia in the Anglican Communion as well, not to the same extent as in the the RCC but it did happen, and just as in the RCC it was swept under the carpet until survivors came out years later.

You like to point out (correctly) that the Anglican Communion as a whole is against gay marriage and the ordination of homosexuals etc. Yet when it is pointed out that the RCC is against pedophelia you skoff and accuse people of wanting to avoid the issue. However just as the ECUSA is just a small branch of the Anglican Communion and is not an example of what Anglicans believe, the sinful behaviour of the pedophile priests and those who covered up their actions is the behaviour of a minority and not indicative of the teachings of the RCC in general.

The Anglican Communion has its problems, and in my opinion does need to set a clear and binding statement of faith an morals that all member churches must agree and adhere to. Do not mistake this for me saying the Anglican Church should put something like the Papacy in place. I like that each Bishop only has authority in his own diocese. However I think that if people are to call themselves Anglicans, they should have to agree to a simple sttement on faith and morals - and that statement should affirm the orthodox Christian position.

God Bless,

Daryl.

P.S. I am an Anglican.

 

[rr1213]

Gay unions and ordaining actively homosexual clergy is against Anglican church teaching. Just try and drag that wet dog onto the carpet of my church and see what our priest would do.

It obviously isn’t since the Episcopal Church voted to ordain, and did ordain, an actively homosexual man, Vickie Gene Robinson, as Bishop of New Hampshire. Then, when called on it, the Episcopal Church defended the decision by pointing by way of analogy to Peter’s revelation about the Gentiles to “prove” that God is now “doing a new thing” with respect to acceptance of homosexuality. The proof is in the pudding.

 

[Gerry_Hunter]

…
Gay unions and ordaining actively homosexual clergy is against Anglican church teaching. Just try and drag that wet dog onto the carpet of my church and see what our priest would do.

Nella, that dog just won’t hunt.

You seem to like to bring up the horrible actions of some Catholic priests. Fine, except for the narrowness of your focus on it. It was horrible, no question. It was not well addressed by quite a number in authority. However no one ever stood up and said, authoritatively, that there was either nothing wrong with what was done, or that it was, in fact, alright.

Compare the Anglican situation. First off, no one has overall authority to declare what is right and wrong for the Anglican Communion. If nothing else, this has been amply demonstrated by recent events. Also, there is incredible variance between the national constituents of the Anglican Communion on these two questions, and there has been incredible variance within many of the national constituents.

So, in the US, we see a presiding bishop going all out to further these two things, while some bishops support her, and some oppose her, and some priests follow their bishops on the issue and some don’t. In Canada, the Anglicans have said that it’s not agqainst core doctrine, but the bishops, have not “affirmed” it when given the opportunity. (They haven’t forbidden it, either, and some allow it.) You can use the phrase “Anglican church teaching,” but in practise, the phrase has no meaning. There IS NO consistent and authoritative teaching in the Anglican Communion or many of its constituant national communities, full stop!

No one, not even those who dropped the ball in dealing with it, ever said that the horrible actions of some priests was right. Those in the highest authority made no bones about it being wrong, wrong, wrong. But in the Anglican Communion, we find those who indeed say that both gay unions and ordaining active homosexuals is right, and no one can effectively contradict them.

The actions of your priest, though probably laudable, only serve to illiustrate that Anglicanism has, by and large, evolved into a rather loose confederation of congregational assemblies, at least in the Western world. Speaking of “Anglican teaching” in such a contest is simply vacuous.

It is a bad thing to sin. It is a worse thing to declare that that which the Church has always taught is sin is not a sin. That’s what’s happening in Anglicanism, with impunity, and it can’t be stopped.

Blessings,

Gerry