Episcopalian Considering Conversion

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I am an Episcopalian that is seriously considering conversion to the Catholic faith. I have read several books by Scott Hahn, David Currie, and Marcus Grodi. Theologically, I am in full agreement with the Catholic faith. I have even spoken with a priest and I am preparing for an RCIA class. I have prayfully considered this move. But for the past four months my wife, children, and myself have attend Mass. I have probably heard homilies from a dozen priests and not one of them have “moved me”. I truly miss the sermons from the Episcopal Church. The other aspect is music. I am used to hearing a 40+ member choir accompanied by a large pipe organ. The Catholic Church has at best 6 members in the choir.

I have gotten almost nothing out of my visits to the Catholic Church. My movement to the Catholic faith is driven only by Apologists, EWTN, and sites like catholic.com. I cannot find the same convictions in my local churches. I just I having problems converting to a faith that I am not spiritually awaken every Sunday. What should I do?
 
I don’t have an answer, just some thoughts. I agree that you don’t get a sermon at mass; you get a homily, or some thoughts on the gospel. But the Holy Spirit is there, that I know. The liturgy is in the two parts, the Liturgy of the Word and the Liturgy of the Eucharist, and you meet Christ in both. I always pray at the start of a homily that the priest hear the Holy Spirit well and that I hear/respond to the Him (the HS). I guess I am glad to hear the gospel proclaimed, and I have always felt that through just one verse or one single word that God can completely change your life. The words in the bible have power behind them, if I am making sense. God is speaking to me and you, directly, I feel.

I realize that certain preachers have the gift to stir you up, and that you can listen to them and be touched by the HS. I just think that the HS does just as good of a job talking to me through the average preacher/priest as well. And it is the HS or Christ that I want to listen to, not the priest.

Good Luck!
 
I am a cradle Catholic and went to the same traditional parish (which I still love), until I married my airforce husband nine years ago, and have since been to Catholic Churches all over the country. At first I felt awkward because I was accustomed to a georgeous choir and gothic architecture, not to mention I missed my parish family.
I tried several parishes in the area and started missing Mass a little too often… Until I was pregnant with my first child and realized that I was missing Christ more than my home parish.
I went to Mass at the Base chapel when there was no choir and a little old lady got up and sang out of tune with no music. I saw her as the widow who gave out of poverty, she gave more than a whole abundant choir because she was willing to give to a parish whose piano player had to PCS to Germany. I realized at that moment, it didn’t matter what the music was like, or whether the homily was done by a gifted orator, what mattered most was that the people around me were there, the Body of Christ was there to celebrate Mass. I asked myself why I attend Mass. Was it to be uplifted and entertained, or was I there to make the commitment to Christ, to recieve the Sacraments, to offer my own life, and recieve the True Presence of Jesus Christ, just as he commanded, under the humble appearance of Bread and wine.
I thought about Mass being celebrated in the middle of a battle field, or hidden in a basement in some communist country. At that moment I realized I was there to be a member of the Body of Christ, and that I would never let anything keep me from the sacraments and the Eucharist itself. I offered it all up and my faith and relationship with Christ became stronger. I started asking myself how I could give my talents to make that base Parish community even better.
I recommend looking for a Catholic Parish you like better, but just remember the importance of Mass doesn’t rest in the human priest, he is just trying to live his vocation like the rest of us. See what you can do to make the Parish community more friendly and close. I am so thankful for converts who bring new life into the community. Maybe God is calling you to do that. When you feel discouraged, offer it up to Christ for Catholics in Countries who are not free to Celebrate Mass and have to risk their lives to take communion.
Right now I am in a real gem of a parish, with 4 awesome choirs and a huge, very close community with a school and great programs, but I don’t consider the Mass at the Base chapel I mentioned any less valid because Christ was present in the Eucharist.

God Bless you, I will pray for you tonight,
PS I am also a big fan of Scott Hahn!
 
A little leaven leaveneth the whole loaf. Maybe the reason there are so many converts in recent years is to bring some of that conviction to the fore. Maybe you are being called (as so many others have been, including myself), to be the leaven for whatever local parish you join.
 
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BhmEpiscopalian:
I am an Episcopalian that is seriously considering conversion to the Catholic faith. I have read several books by Scott Hahn, David Currie, and Marcus Grodi. Theologically, I am in full agreement with the Catholic faith. I have even spoken with a priest and I am preparing for an RCIA class. I have prayfully considered this move. But for the past four months my wife, children, and myself have attend Mass. I have probably heard homilies from a dozen priests and not one of them have “moved me”. I truly miss the sermons from the Episcopal Church. The other aspect is music. I am used to hearing a 40+ member choir accompanied by a large pipe organ. The Catholic Church has at best 6 members in the choir.

I have gotten almost nothing out of my visits to the Catholic Church. My movement to the Catholic faith is driven only by Apologists, EWTN, and sites like catholic.com. I cannot find the same convictions in my local churches. I just I having problems converting to a faith that I am not spiritually awaken every Sunday. What should I do?
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We also left the Episcopal Church after the confirmation of Bishop Robinson. I understand how you feel, but we are fortunate in that our priest gives wonderful homilies. We do find ourselves missing the music, but I think that you have to concentrate on the theology issue. Is it The Church, or not? With what we have been reading these past few months especially, we are confident that we are moving in the direction God has for us.

In regards to the “same convictions” issue, this is an excellent point. Sometimes it seems that “Cradle Catholics” are complacent in their faith–not realizing what a treasure is theirs. All I can suggest, however, is that we are all fallen (Romans 3:23) and in need of God’s grace upon our lives. I read on another post today that we’re living through one of the most difficult times in the history of the Catholic Church. He could be right. Just today, for example, the Archdiocese of Portland declared bankruptcy due to the number of civil suits it was facing concerning the sexual claims against priests. This being the case, perhaps the Catholic Church is in need of a revival of sorts and perhaps new Catholics such as ourselves can play a small part in that process. I know that in my circle of family and friends, we are not the only family which seems to be discovering anew what the Catholic Church is all about. Bottom line, though, there are deep and devout Catholics all around us. We just need to get involved together in activities which enrich our spiritual journey. We had some of the finest music around at our old church, but I’d much rather be part of a church which honors God in its services, theology, and practices.
 
Which Birmingham, England or AL? I am in Alabama, and I might be able to help you a little.
 
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Peace-bwu:
I am a cradle Catholic and went to the same traditional parish (which I still love), until I married my airforce husband nine years ago, and have since been to Catholic Churches all over the country. At first I felt awkward because I was accustomed to a georgeous choir and gothic architecture, not to mention I missed my parish family.
I tried several parishes in the area and started missing Mass a little too often… Until I was pregnant with my first child and realized that I was missing Christ more than my home parish.
I went to Mass at the Base chapel when there was no choir and a little old lady got up and sang out of tune with no music. I saw her as the widow who gave out of poverty, she gave more than a whole abundant choir because she was willing to give to a parish whose piano player had to PCS to Germany. I realized at that moment, it didn’t matter what the music was like, or whether the homily was done by a gifted orator, what mattered most was that the people around me were there, the Body of Christ was there to celebrate Mass. I asked myself why I attend Mass. Was it to be uplifted and entertained, or was I there to make the commitment to Christ, to recieve the Sacraments, to offer my own life, and recieve the True Presence of Jesus Christ, just as he commanded, under the humble appearance of Bread and wine.
I thought about Mass being celebrated in the middle of a battle field, or hidden in a basement in some communist country. At that moment I realized I was there to be a member of the Body of Christ, and that I would never let anything keep me from the sacraments and the Eucharist itself. I offered it all up and my faith and relationship with Christ became stronger. I started asking myself how I could give my talents to make that base Parish community even better.
I recommend looking for a Catholic Parish you like better, but just remember the importance of Mass doesn’t rest in the human priest, he is just trying to live his vocation like the rest of us. See what you can do to make the Parish community more friendly and close. I am so thankful for converts who bring new life into the community. Maybe God is calling you to do that. When you feel discouraged, offer it up to Christ for Catholics in Countries who are not free to Celebrate Mass and have to risk their lives to take communion.
Right now I am in a real gem of a parish, with 4 awesome choirs and a huge, very close community with a school and great programs, but I don’t consider the Mass at the Base chapel I mentioned any less valid because Christ was present in the Eucharist.

God Bless you, I will pray for you tonight,
PS I am also a big fan of Scott Hahn!
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Right on!!! What she said…
 
While music and homilies can sometimes be pretty miserable, I don’t let that bother me. If we believe in the real presence, we should be awe struck at the tremendous miracle before us. Catholic liturgy, when done properly, is filled with reverence and love of God. At mass we think only about the Almighty and what it is that we offer unto him. We are reminded of just what the mass is about when we read Malachi 1:11 and its restatement in Eucharistic prayer # 3, “From age to age You gather a people to Yourself, so that from east to west a perfect offering may be made to the glory of Your Name.”

Not only do we have the perfect offering but we receive the perfect offering. When we have a weak choir and or a poor homily we should still be able through the readings and the miracle of God’s own gift and perfect offering be moved beyond anything else on earth. I have attended masses where there was no singing and no homily given. In those cases it is still the perfect offering of Jesus to the Father and it is still the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Jesus that I recieve in the Eucharist. While the music and sermon are important it is the miracle of consecration that truly moves us.
 
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Pax:
Not only do we have the perfect offering but we receive the perfect offering. When we have a weak choir and or a poor homily we should still be able through the readings and the miracle of God’s own gift and perfect offering be moved beyond anything else on earth. I have attended masses where there was no singing and no homily given. In those cases it is still the perfect offering of Jesus to the Father and it is still the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Jesus that I recieve in the Eucharist. While the music and sermon are important it is the miracle of consecration that truly moves us.
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I completely agree. I have been to Mass with a great choir and weak homily as well as with an awful choir that couldn’t carry a tune in a bucket and a fantastic, moving homily (and pretty much everything in between).

The Eucharist, however, is a weekly miracle that I pray I never take for granted. Nothing else in any church of any denomination even comes close.
 
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Peace-bwu:
I went to Mass at the Base chapel when there was no choir and a little old lady got up and sang out of tune with no music. I saw her as the widow who gave out of poverty, she gave more than a whole abundant choir because she was willing to give to a parish whose piano player had to PCS to Germany. I realized at that moment, it didn’t matter what the music was like, or whether the homily was done by a gifted orator, what mattered most was that the people around me were there, the Body of Christ was there to celebrate Mass. I asked myself why I attend Mass. Was it to be uplifted and entertained, or was I there to make the commitment to Christ, to recieve the Sacraments, to offer my own life, and recieve the True Presence of Jesus Christ, just as he commanded, under the humble appearance of Bread and wine.
I thought about Mass being celebrated in the middle of a battle field, or hidden in a basement in some communist country. At that moment I realized I was there to be a member of the Body of Christ, and that I would never let anything keep me from the sacraments and the Eucharist itself. I offered it all up and my faith and relationship with Christ became stronger. I started asking myself how I could give my talents to make that base Parish community even better.

God Bless you, I will pray for you tonight,
PS I am also a big fan of Scott Hahn!
Click to expand...
I agree with you so much that I feel a little awkward saying " yes But". I am an Episcopal convert too. This is a subject dear to my heart. My old Episcopal church in Dallas was glorious. Its choir substituted for the choir at Westminster Abbey in the summer. The people themselves sang well. But it was the way it was because it had a tradition of excellence. It paid its Music director well. It paid its section leaders-- at least a little. The people expected excellence !. If this sounds a little calculated --it was. You must build a wonderful thing like this --it won’t just happen. As you say , God can be worshiped with the poor things we can offer, if that is all we have, but He can also be worshiped with the best that talented people can offer – and should be if that too is the best we can offer. And this is my point: If there is poor music in your Parish it is because the people expect it . There is always enough money and time to do what is expected.

We must find a way to change the expectations of the people.

A few self-serving words from a poor artist.
( Long live Scott Hahn)
 
Bhm,

I’m in the same boat–in fact I considered Catholicism before I even became Episcopalian (six years ago). It seems to me that the issues you raise are serious ones if you think that there may be deeper reasons behind them. For instance, is the preaching consistently poor because Catholics unduly downplay the grace-giving nature of the proclaimed Word? Is the music bad because Catholicism has traditionally had an overly legalistic understanding of grace and the sacraments so that “subjective” things like music and congregational participation become unimportant? If you really are 100% in agreement with Catholic doctrine, then it seems to me that you are obligated to disregard the problems and go ahead. One of the many reasons I haven’t converted is that I fear that the practical worship problems may have deeper roots. But on the other hand, I have no doubt that Christ is present in the Mass, and one could argue that our (Episcopalian) superior singing and liturgy is the result of our socially elite membership rather than any great spiritual reason.

Also, might I suggest that a decision to convert should (if you have the leisure) involve some acquaintance with some of the following:

The Catechism of the Catholic Church
The Documents of Vatican II
Denzinger’s Enchiridion Symbolorum (a collection of official Catholic teaching)
Some of the writings of the Church Fathers, such as Augustine, Athanasius, Chrysostom, Irenaeus, etc.
Some lives of the Saints
The work of Thomas Aquinas (there are good summaries and abridgements available–I’m not telling you to read the whole Summa Theologiae from beginning to end)
Some of the traditional devotional and mystical writers, such as Thomas a Kempis, St. Francis de Sales, St. Therese of Lisieux
The writings of John Henry Newman, who is a particularly relevant source for Anglicans considering conversion to Catholicism
Some of the great Catholic poets and other creative writers, such as Dante, Gerald Manley Hopkins, possibly some of the modern Catholic fiction writers like Evelyn Waugh, Graham Greene, Flannery O’Connor, Walker Percy (not that they were all exemplary in their lives and doctrine)
Some of the older apologists and converts, such as G.K. Chesterton
Some of the great 20th-century Catholic theologians, like Henri de Lubac, Yves Congar, Hans Urs von Balthasar, also living theologians such as Avery Dulles, Cardinal Ratzinger, Aidan Nichols

Obviously this is a lifetime’s reading, and I don’t claim to know this material exhaustively by any means; but it’s worth digging into as much as you can. Contemporary apologists such as the ones you mention are the entry point at best, as I’m sure they would be quick to agree.

In Christ,

Edwin
 
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JohnCarroll:
As you say , God can be worshiped with the poor things we can offer, if that is all we have, but He can also be worshiped with the best that talented people can offer – and should be if that too is the best we can offer. And this is my point: If there is poor music in your Parish it is because the people expect it . There is always enough money and time to do what is expected.

We must find a way to change the expectations of the people.

A few self-serving words from a poor artist.
( Long live Scott Hahn)
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I was referring to an Airforce base chapel. They have the problem of parish members constantly in a state of being stationed at one base for a short time and moving (PCS ing) to another base. Sometimes the members who are talented musicians are the ones who move and the parish is left searching until another member steps up, or more talent is “stationed” to our base. There is beauty in the base parishes. They are many times the final Mass a Catholic soldier, seaman, or airman attends before going to support war or peace in some hellish location. Most airforce families don’t have money to spare to hire a professional musician, but they come to the base chapel to celebrate the Mass with their community who understands what they are going through while their spouse is away. Many young single airmen who live in the dorms on base don’t own cars and are thankful they can walk to Mass on base. Many go to daily Mass in their BDUs ( Battle Dress Uniforms) during their lunch breaks. I am amazed at what a huge % of the people in my husband’s flying squadron are Catholic.

I agree with you but the situation on military base chapels is a little different.
( I am a poor artist as well, but alas a visual one, not musical!)
 
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BhmEpiscopalian:
I am an Episcopalian that is seriously considering conversion to the Catholic faith. I have read several books by Scott Hahn, David Currie, and Marcus Grodi. Theologically, I am in full agreement with the Catholic faith. I have even spoken with a priest and I am preparing for an RCIA class. I have prayfully considered this move. But for the past four months my wife, children, and myself have attend Mass. I have probably heard homilies from a dozen priests and not one of them have “moved me”. I truly miss the sermons from the Episcopal Church. The other aspect is music. I am used to hearing a 40+ member choir accompanied by a large pipe organ. The Catholic Church has at best 6 members in the choir.

I have gotten almost nothing out of my visits to the Catholic Church. My movement to the Catholic faith is driven only by Apologists, EWTN, and sites like catholic.com. I cannot find the same convictions in my local churches. I just I having problems converting to a faith that I am not spiritually awaken every Sunday. What should I do?
Click to expand...
From the July 6 Karl Keating e-letter:
The only reason to adhere to the Catholic faith is that it is true. It is the one religion that makes an absolute claim, and it has made it for twenty centuries: This and none other is wholly true.

Most who have lived during those twenty centuries have not accepted that claim. Even most nominal Catholics have appreciated it only imperfectly. Still, that is the claim of the Church: This and none other is wholly true. Take it or leave it. Accept it or reject it. Acknowledge it or deny it. Live it or ignore it.
 
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Peace-bwu:
I was referring to an Airforce base chapel. They have the problem of parish members constantly in a state of being stationed at one base for a short time and moving (PCS ing) to another base. Sometimes the members who are talented musicians are the ones who move and the parish is left searching until another member steps up, or more talent is “stationed” to our base. There is beauty in the base parishes. They are many times the final Mass a Catholic soldier, seaman, or airman attends before going to support war or peace in some hellish location. Most airforce families don’t have money to spare to hire a professional musician, but they come to the base chapel to celebrate the Mass with their community who understands what they are going through while their spouse is away. Many young single airmen who live in the dorms on base don’t own cars and are thankful they can walk to Mass on base. Many go to daily Mass in their BDUs ( Battle Dress Uniforms) during their lunch breaks. I am amazed at what a huge % of the people in my husband’s flying squadron are Catholic.

I agree with you but the situation on military base chapels is a little different.
( I am a poor artist as well, but alas a visual one, not musical!)
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Dear Peace,
Now i feel really bad. I hope you don’t think I was critacizing the Base chapel. It is just that for many years ( pre EpiscopaI) I was in a church which seemed prowd of the fact that it was small and couldn’t do much of a worship service --it was suspicious of larger churches that were doing things in a professional way. Actually I am a visual artist too – I was just defending my cousin artists in music.
John
 
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lsburk:
From the July 6 Karl Keating e-letter:
The only reason to adhere to the Catholic faith is that it is true. It is the one religion that makes an absolute claim, and it has made it for twenty centuries: This and none other is wholly true.

Most who have lived during those twenty centuries have not accepted that claim. Even most nominal Catholics have appreciated it only imperfectly. Still, that is the claim of the Church: This and none other is wholly true. Take it or leave it. Accept it or reject it. Acknowledge it or deny it. Live it or ignore it.
Click to expand...
I agree with Karl but it doesn’t make the singing any better.
 
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BhmEpiscopalian:
I am an Episcopalian that is seriously considering conversion to the Catholic faith. I have read several books by Scott Hahn, David Currie, and Marcus Grodi. Theologically, I am in full agreement with the Catholic faith. I have even spoken with a priest and I am preparing for an RCIA class. I have prayfully considered this move. But for the past four months my wife, children, and myself have attend Mass. I have probably heard homilies from a dozen priests and not one of them have “moved me”. I truly miss the sermons from the Episcopal Church. The other aspect is music. I am used to hearing a 40+ member choir accompanied by a large pipe organ. The Catholic Church has at best 6 members in the choir.

I have gotten almost nothing out of my visits to the Catholic Church. My movement to the Catholic faith is driven only by Apologists, EWTN, and sites like catholic.com. I cannot find the same convictions in my local churches. I just I having problems converting to a faith that I am not spiritually awaken every Sunday. What should I do?
Click to expand...
I was in the same boat as you for some time. Reading the Fathers and EWTN were my Evangelists. I finally decided I wanted to be in the Church that Peter founded–even if at times it sounds like a church that Peter would have founded.
 
Bhm,

I would humbly ask you to pray about the following that Peace-bwu offers to you. And ask yourself, why do you attend mass?
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Peace-bwu:
I realized at that moment, it didn’t matter what the music was like, or whether the homily was done by a gifted orator, what mattered most was that the people around me were there, the Body of Christ was there to celebrate Mass. I asked myself why I attend Mass. Was it to be uplifted and entertained, or was I there to make the commitment to Christ, to recieve the Sacraments, to offer my own life, and recieve the True Presence of Jesus Christ, just as he commanded, under the humble appearance of Bread and wine.
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:clapping:

I one time heard a priest present it this way (paraphrased)…
"Why do you come to mass? Is it for selfish reason, or is to show respect for and worship Christ and His ultimate sacrifice? He was referencing the same problems you are having (choir, uplifting homily). :o :confused:
I have to admit, I had to question my motives as well and refocus my idea of worship.

I suggest praying for God to help you focus on the true intention of mass as others on this thread have also suggested. The reason the Church Fathers gathered together so long ago was for the “breaking of the bread” (mass). I doubt they had much of a choir, although their homilies might have been a bit superior. They were so committed to the Eucharist and unwilling to abandon it during times of persecution that they were willing to die for It. And many did.

Please, do not confuse my words for anything other than an offer of assistance to you. And, as others have stated, this may be our Lord calling you to lend your talents to your parish. I will pray for your discernment.

Peace be with you,
David
 
Mr. Episcopalian,

I came from a far away land in the Far East, the Philipppines. Philippines is a Catholic country. The sad thing is, we are deprived of material wealth, but we boast of our spiritual wealth. In so many parts of the country, especially in the countryside, we have small chapels built to celebrate the Mass. These chapels have no airconditioning, mostly open in either side to receive proper ventilation and lighting. You can just imagine, there is even no pipe organs or choir of 50 plus people that you could imagine like here in the U.S.-no, you can’t find them there. People celebrate Mass together, with or withour choir. People sing together. But the Mass is the same as celebrated in many parts of the world. The most beautiful thing is, that the people worship every Sunday (at least) and receives Jesus-- Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity, just like the Catholics who receives Him in many parts of the world. The beauty of the Catholic CHurch is that she can live in poverty. Just like the Master, though He was rich, chose to live in poverty while on earth.

Shalom,

Pio
 
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JohnCarroll:
Dear Peace,
Now i feel really bad. I hope you don’t think I was critacizing the Base chapel. It is just that for many years ( pre EpiscopaI) I was in a church which seemed prowd of the fact that it was small and couldn’t do much of a worship service --it was suspicious of larger churches that were doing things in a professional way. Actually I am a visual artist too – I was just defending my cousin artists in music.
John
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No worries! I was not offended, I just wanted to clarify to give ppl a better understanding of the dynamics in an Airforce Base chapel. I would not have known if I weren’t an airforce wife. It has been an interesting experince. I have learned alot about the topic in this thread ie. how population, income and education levels, level of volunteerism etc affect the dynamics of a parish. I might not have grown as much had I stayed in the familiarity of my hometown parish. I love these discussions! An artist has to take criticism very well… it takes alot more than *that *to ruffle my feathers… er uh, paintbrush. You were very kind in your reply, thank you,
Peace
 
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hlgomez:
Mr. Episcopalian,

I came from a far away land in the Far East, the Philipppines. Philippines is a Catholic country. The sad thing is, we are deprived of material wealth, but we boast of our spiritual wealth. In so many parts of the country, especially in the countryside, we have small chapels built to celebrate the Mass. These chapels have no airconditioning, mostly open in either side to receive proper ventilation and lighting. You can just imagine, there is even no pipe organs or choir of 50 plus people that you could imagine like here in the U.S.-no, you can’t find them there. People celebrate Mass together, with or withour choir. People sing together. But the Mass is the same as celebrated in many parts of the world. The most beautiful thing is, that the people worship every Sunday (at least) and receives Jesus-- Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity, just like the Catholics who receives Him in many parts of the world. The beauty of the Catholic CHurch is that she can live in poverty. Just like the Master, though He was rich, chose to live in poverty while on earth.

Shalom,

Pio
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Oh how I love this post!!!
The last priest at our parish was from the Philippines and we also have sisters and brothers from the same area. It seems America needs missionaries from the Philippines because we are suffering from so much materialism! I was just thinking this at Sunday Mass! Thank you for your wonderful post, I whole heartedly agree with you, God Bless!
Peace
 
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