You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
K
KKM
Guest
Ya know, I’m not sure the Roman Catholic church is losing much. Just this past spring, my RCIA class went to a service for those joining and everyone from the Diocese was there who was joining this year. It was a very large number of people. In one diocese close to a thousand people. And that happens yearly. I looked up the numbers of members in each religion not long ago, and Catholics have the majority among Christians. Now, how to calculate the members who leave for another denomination might be tricky, but I don’t think its over a thousand each year in our diocese.
Either way, though, because I’m not really interested in arguing about it, I’m happy to be there and happy to make all efforts I can to follow the Catholic faith as much as I possibly can, and to have the opportunity to grow emotionally because of it. I’m sorry this thread has taken a negative turn, but at least, the very least, I’ve learned a little bit more about the history.
hugs to you all!
Either way, though, because I’m not really interested in arguing about it, I’m happy to be there and happy to make all efforts I can to follow the Catholic faith as much as I possibly can, and to have the opportunity to grow emotionally because of it. I’m sorry this thread has taken a negative turn, but at least, the very least, I’ve learned a little bit more about the history.
hugs to you all!
G
GKC
Guest
Depends on who you ask. Traditional Anglicans agree with the RCC, on the requirements. Not all do, but not all Anglicans do anything.Who says what’s valid and what’s not?
GKC
E
eightydeuce82
Guest
No its not negative at all its dialog. this is what happens when those who take things seriously defend the faith. I guess it could be called amateur level apologetics. Learning to defend your faith is paramount and something as a Catholic you will have to do very frequently in a protestant country. Not everyone is as understanding as the Anglicans and Lutherans who hold onto some semblance of tradition.Ya know, I’m not sure the Roman Catholic church is losing much. Just this past spring, my RCIA class went to a service for those joining and everyone from the Diocese was there who was joining this year. It was a very large number of people. In one diocese close to a thousand people. And that happens yearly. I looked up the numbers of members in each religion not long ago, and Catholics have the majority among Christians. Now, how to calculate the members who leave for another denomination might be tricky, but I don’t think its over a thousand each year in our diocese.
Either way, though, because I’m not really interested in arguing about it, I’m happy to be there and happy to make all efforts I can to follow the Catholic faith as much as I possibly can, and to have the opportunity to grow emotionally because of it. I’m sorry this thread has taken a negative turn, but at least, the very least, I’ve learned a little bit more about the history.
hugs to you all!
E
eightydeuce82
Guest
So let me get this straight there is ZERO authority. No one really has any assurance that they will stay “valid” and there is the potential to capsize at any time.Depends on who you ask. Traditional, Anglicans agree with the RCC, on the requirements. Not all do, but not all Anglicans do anything.
GKC
You believe in Apostolic succession (not sure how that’s possible…but its there
You use Catholic liturgical practices
you use Catholic standards for many things
many of your churches even claim the name catholic
YET you wont just quit playing soldier and become a real soldier? To a church where there is no possibility of sliding off the side of the mountain and loosing all these things you guys are witnessing? Were witnessing it to BTW and were sitting in the background nodding saying I told you so.
E
eightydeuce82
Guest
I mean I know you all have no qualms dividing a church that’s just a historic fact but you own denominations are sliding off the proverbial cliff…you’re completely ok with just slicing them off and saying they are not valid and doing so with no real authority using catholic traditions to prop you up and somehow validate your practices?Depends on who you ask. Traditional Anglicans agree with the RCC, on the requirements. Not all do, but not all Anglicans do anything.
GKC
B
BernadetteM
Guest
I am coming into this thread late and haven’t read many of the posts. However as a Catholic there is the most important doctrine that Christ gave to the Church and that is Peter as the Rock and the authority to Bind and Loose on earth and it would also be bound and loosed in Heaven. This is the answer as to the validity of Anglican orders, as the Catholic Church has been given the AUTHORITY to make this decision.
Authority is probably one or is the reason most Anglicans and Protestants do not want to be Catholic. Human nature is what it is and we don’t like anyone telling us what to believe or do.
At least that is my take on this question.
Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary
Bernadette
Authority is probably one or is the reason most Anglicans and Protestants do not want to be Catholic. Human nature is what it is and we don’t like anyone telling us what to believe or do.
At least that is my take on this question.
Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary
Bernadette
G
GKC
Guest
No, there is no central, hierarchical authority among Anglicans, who, as to the official Anglican Communion, are not one, but 38 auto-cephalic, independent Churches. Which does not exhaust the category of Anglicanism, not in the Communion. Yes, it is possible for a given Anglican group to go off the rails.So let me get this straight there is ZERO authority. No one really has any assurance that they will stay “valid” and there is the potential to capsize at any time.
You believe in Apostolic succession (not sure how that’s possible…but its there
You use Catholic liturgical practices
you use Catholic standards for many things
many of your churches even claim the name catholic
YET you wont just quit playing soldier and become a real soldier? To a church where there is no possibility of sliding off the side of the mountain and loosing all these things you guys are witnessing? Were witnessing it to BTW and were sitting in the background nodding saying I told you so.
Yes, Anglicans (generally) affirm the idea of apostolic succession. It’s there because it was there when Henry took the Church in England private, in 1534. Schism does not negate apostolic succession, in itself. The judgement as expressed in Apostolicae Curae declared that the CoE lost apostolic succession, for a couple of intertwined technical reasons, roughly at Elizabeth I’s accession. All RCs should affirm that judgement, at the appropriate level of theological certainty. Anglicans need not do so.
Yes, Anglicans use liturgical practices which match, to varying degrees, the practices of the undivided Church. And, like other Churches, these practices can get modified over time, sometimes for the better, sometimes the worse.
Yes, Anglicans often use standards of the undivided Church. To be schismatic does not mean to change everything. Just to change what was considered essential to change.
Yes, many Anglican groups identify as Catholic, specifically. Others do not. Those that do so identify are unlikely to care if no one agrees with them.
As to your last para, yes, I have certainly heard such expressions, before. But, as I have occasionally said, it is almost impossible to offend me.
Soldier on.
And keep in mind that, generally, it is very difficult to make a generalization about Anglicans. Accurately, that is. Except for the word “motley”
GKC, * Anglicanus Catholicus*
E
eightydeuce82
Guest
And that has been the common theme in all of these threads and what I have been harping on this entire time.I am coming into this thread late and haven’t read many of the posts. However as a Catholic there is the most important doctrine that Christ gave to the Church and that is Peter as the Rock and the authority to Bind and Loose on earth and it would also be bound and loosed in Heaven. This is the answer as to the validity of Anglican orders, as the Catholic Church has been given the AUTHORITY to make this decision.
Authority is probably one or is the reason most Anglicans and Protestants do not want to be Catholic. Human nature is what it is and we don’t like anyone telling us what to believe or do.
At least that is my take on this question.
Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary
Bernadette
It doesn’t matter what the question might be, apostolic succession or gay marriage or anything in-between. It all comes down to authority where it comes from and who in Protestantism has it to set moral and faith guidelines for their respective faithful. Of course rejecting authority which is inherently built into the fabric of Protestantism always seems to find its authority in the ancient church somehow be it dogma or doctrine or moral foundation yet they will deny it and secularize it and continue to protest. Its a giant rollercoaster that just goes in a circle infinitely and I have been riding it every day with people.
All of this Gay marriage, female ordination, abortion, contraceptives, etc etc etc all come down to authority
G
GKC
Guest
If I understand your rant, then, while not ok with that, I have no alternative to that. Ddin’t cause it, can’t cure it.I mean I know you all have no qualms dividing a church that’s just a historic fact but you own denominations are sliding off the proverbial cliff…you’re completely ok with just slicing them off and saying they are not valid and doing so with no real authority using catholic traditions to prop you up and somehow validate your practices?
GKC
E
eightydeuce82
Guest
Anglicans or any other protestant denomination use catholic small c.No, there is no central, hierarchical authority among Anglicans, who, as to the official Anglican Communion, are not one, but 38 auto-cephalic, independent Churches. Which does not exhaust the category of Anglicanism, not in the Communion. Yes, it is possible for a given Anglican group to go off the rails.
Yes, Anglicans (generally) affirm the idea of apostolic succession. It’s there because it was there when Henry took the Church in England private, in 1534. Schism does not negate apostolic succession, in itself. The judgement as expressed in Apostolicae Curae declared that the CoE lost apostolic succession, for a couple of intertwined technical reasons, roughly at Elizabeth I’s accession. All RCs should affirm that judgement, at the appropriate level of theological certainty. Anglicans need not do so.
Yes, Anglicans use liturgical practices which match, to varying degrees, the practices of the undivided Church. And, like other Churches, these practices can get modified over time, sometimes for the better, sometimes the worse.
Yes, Anglicans often use standards of the undivided Church. To be schismatic does not mean to change everything. Just to change what was considered essential to change.
Yes, many Anglican groups identify as Catholic, specifically. Others do not. Those that do so identify are unlikely to care if no one agrees with them.
As to your last para, yes, I have certainly heard such expressions, before. But, as I have occasionally said, it is almost impossible to offend me.
Soldier on.
And keep in mind that, generally, it is very difficult to make a generalization about Anglicans. Accurately, that is. Except for the word “motley”
GKC, * Anglicanus Catholicus*
You left out the biggest part as every church father has put forward remaining in the good graces of Rome and submitting to her. That’s a tough one to skirt.
E
eightydeuce82
Guest
Sure you can return to mother church and bring everyone you know. the only way these divisions will stop is when there are no more protestants. Not saying divisions wont happen but we need to repair this fracture before we think about future ones.If I understand your rant, then, while not ok with that, I have no alternative to that. Ddin’t cause it, can’t cure it.
GKC
G
GKC
Guest
I wish you luck with that.Sure you can return to mother church and bring everyone you know. the only way these divisions will stop is when there are no more protestants. Not saying divisions wont happen but we need to repair this fracture before we think about future ones.
GKC
E
eightydeuce82
Guest
Quite a daunting task don’t you think?I wish you luck with that.
GKC
G
GKC
Guest
Gargantuan. The obstacles, from all sides, seem insuperable.Quite a daunting task don’t you think?
GKC
E
eightydeuce82
Guest
Its funny the Catholics and Lutherans settled long standing theological differences in the 90s…think that changed anything? Nope protesters will protest.Gargantuan. The obstacles, from all sides, seem insuperable.
GKC
G
GKC
Guest
You do not know much about Anglicans.Anglicans or any other protestant denomination use catholic small c.
You left out the biggest part as every church father has put forward remaining in the good graces of Rome and submitting to her. That’s a tough one to skirt.
As to the second para, you might discuss it with the Orthodox. That happens here all the time.
GKC,* Anglicanus Catholicus*
G
GKC
Guest
I think that the answer to the" changed anything" question depends on whom you ask it of.Its funny the Catholics and Lutherans settled long standing theological differences in the 90s…think that changed anything? Nope protesters will protest.
GKC
E
eightydeuce82
Guest
I know quite a bit about Anglicans actually. That’s why i’m not Anglican.You do not know much about Anglicans.
As to the second para, you might discuss it with the Orthodox. That happens here all the time.
GKC,* Anglicanus Catholicus*
Of course the Orthodox if they had any hope at even sounding valid would have to discount the 7 councils they say were authoritative which of course had a residing pope. Of course they wont do that because they would have been left with ZERO councils.
G
GKC
Guest
No, you do not know much about Anglicans. Recalling, of course, that it is difficult to generalize bout them.I know quite a bit about Anglicans actually. That’s why i’m not Anglican.
Of course the Orthodox if they had any hope at even sounding valid would have to discount the 7 councils they say were authoritative which of course had a residing pope. Of course they wont do that because they would have been left with ZERO councils.
As in the use of a capital C in Catholic. Some do it regularly. Some do not. And most who do, do not care much about what someone else says about it. And any of them who use the 1928 Book of Common Prayer at Mass, use Catholic, when reciting or chanting the Nicene Creed.
Did you know that about Anglicans?
Now time for a pipe.
GKC
- Status
- Not open for further replies.