Episcopalian today?

[eightydeuce82]

No, you do not know much about Anglicans. Recalling, of course, that it is difficult to generalize bout them.

As in the use of a capital C in Catholic. Some do it regularly. Some do not. And most who do, do not care much about what someone else says about it. And any of them who use the 1928 Book of Common Prayer at Mass, use Catholic, when reciting or chanting the Nicene Creed.

Did you know that about Anglicans?

Now time for a pipe.

GKC

Yes I knew that. Its difficult to generalize anything protestant.

 

[Contarini]

Ah that’s similar to a protestant using the Early church Fathers and you politely point out they were Roman Catholic. The end!

There’s no “pointing out.” It’s a rhetorical claim that all depends on one’s definition of “Roman Catholic.” By my definition there were no Roman Catholics before the Council of Trent. But of course we can define terms in different ways.

Edwin

 

[GKC]

Yes I knew that. Its difficult to generalize anything protestant.

So I’ve heard people say. Anglicans are the epitome. And yet you generalized about Anglicans and the use of the small c.

Unless, of course, what you intended convey was that, in your opinion, and the opinion of folk who agree with you, small c is appropriate for Anglicans using the word Catholic. In which case, I have no objection to you and your opinion.

Pipe is packed.

GKC,* Anglicanus Catholicus *

 

[Contarini]

Of course the Orthodox if they had any hope at even sounding valid would have to discount the 7 councils they say were authoritative which of course had a residing pope. Of course they wont do that because they would have been left with ZERO councils.

What do you mean by a “residing pope”?

I don’t believe that the Pope was personally present at any of the 7 Councils. Papal legates were present at five of the seven. The second Council (Constantinople I) had no Western participation at all but was deemed an ecumenical Council later. The fifth Council (Constantinople II) had no papal participation because of disagreements between the Pope and the emperor (the emperor actually imprisoned the Pope to force him to agree to the Council). The Pope later accepted the result of the Council as orthodox.

So all seven Councils were eventually approved by the Pope, but it is not true that the Pope was present at any of them, or even that his representatives were present at all of them.

Edwin

 

[eightydeuce82]

There’s no “pointing out.” It’s a rhetorical claim that all depends on one’s definition of “Roman Catholic.” By my definition there were no Roman Catholics before the Council of Trent. But of course we can define terms in different ways.

Edwin

they were ALL roman Catholic in union with ROME and the POPE

 

[eightydeuce82]

What do you mean by a “residing pope”?

I don’t believe that the Pope was personally present at any of the 7 Councils. Papal legates were present at five of the seven. The second Council (Constantinople I) had no Western participation at all but was deemed an ecumenical Council later. The fifth Council (Constantinople II) had no papal participation because of disagreements between the Pope and the emperor (the emperor actually imprisoned the Pope to force him to agree to the Council). The Pope later accepted the result of the Council as orthodox.

So all seven Councils were eventually approved by the Pope, but it is not true that the Pope was present at any of them, or even that his representatives were present at all of them.

Edwin

They ALL required papal approval whether he was physically present or not.

 

[eightydeuce82]

So I’ve heard people say. Anglicans are the epitome. And yet you generalized about Anglicans and the use of the small c.

Unless, of course, what you intended convey was that, in your opinion, and the opinion of folk who agree with you, small c is appropriate for Anglicans using the word Catholic. In which case, I have no objection to you and your opinion.

Pipe is packed.

GKC,* Anglicanus Catholicus *

Small c is appropriate you do not get to use the proper name of Catholic which would apply to my church.

 

[eightydeuce82]

There’s no “pointing out.” It’s a rhetorical claim that all depends on one’s definition of “Roman Catholic.” By my definition there were no Roman Catholics before the Council of Trent. But of course we can define terms in different ways.

Edwin

Of coure Roman wasn’t added till much much later but the Latin Church of the West along with the Pope has always held Primacy weather that was spelled out at a council or not. One does not get to redefine the terms.

 

[Izdaari]

I am Episcopalian and proud and happy to be one. All are welcome. No, you don’t have to approve of LGBT’s to be welcome, though we would ask that you be civil to any that are present. That’s not approval, it’s just good manners.

 

[eightydeuce82]

I am Episcopalian and proud and happy to be one. All are welcome. No, you don’t have to approve of LGBT’s to be welcome, though we would ask that you be civil to any that are present. That’s not approval, it’s just good manners.

Is it approval when you have open clergy and are ordaining folks who are homosexual and providing so called marriages? Is that what it means to be civil but not condoning?

 

[eightydeuce82]

So I’ve heard people say. Anglicans are the epitome. And yet you generalized about Anglicans and the use of the small c.

Unless, of course, what you intended convey was that, in your opinion, and the opinion of folk who agree with you, small c is appropriate for Anglicans using the word Catholic. In which case, I have no objection to you and your opinion.

Pipe is packed.

GKC,* Anglicanus Catholicus *

Also it was stated on another thread I don’t see you saying your a Jehovah whiteness even though you whiteness for Jehovah. So really if were going down that road borrowing the term catholic does not make one Catholic.

 

[7_Sorrows]

So I’ve heard people say. Anglicans are the epitome. And yet you generalized about Anglicans and the use of the small c.

Unless, of course, what you intended convey was that, in your opinion, and the opinion of folk who agree with you, small c is appropriate for Anglicans using the word Catholic. In which case, I have no objection to you and your opinion.

Pipe is packed.

GKC,* Anglicanus Catholicus *

Enjoy your pipe GKC! Your participation in any thread to do with the episcopalians or anglicans is so valuable!!

I can understand how painful the last 25-30 years have been for members of these congregations. It is hard for those to understand who have been Catholic their entire life. It is not easy.

 

[eightydeuce82]

Enjoy your pipe GKC! Your participation in any thread to do with the episcopalians or anglicans is so valuable!!

I can understand how painful the last 25-30 years have been for members of these congregations. It is hard for those to understand who have been Catholic their entire life. It is not easy.

I would say that watching most mainline protestant denominations lose so many members for the church of ‘me’ has been painful for all of those denominations. That certainly isn’t just relegated to protestants either.

 

[GKC]

Also it was stated on another thread I don’t see you saying your a Jehovah whiteness even though you whiteness for Jehovah. So really if were going down that road borrowing the term catholic does not make one Catholic.

I would agree.

GKC

 

[GKC]

Small c is appropriate you do not get to use the proper name of Catholic which would apply to my church.

I’ve certainly heard folk who say that, yes.

GKC

 

[Contarini]

They ALL required papal approval whether he was physically present or not.

They all eventually received papal approval. Whether people at the time thought this was essential to their validity and authority is less clear.

 

[eightydeuce82]

They all eventually received papal approval. Whether people at the time thought this was essential to their validity and authority is less clear.

Authority really hasn’t been unclear really at any time in the church. Really this isn’t an issue anywhere in the 1-4th centuries. The orthodox would like to say so obviously they have to in order to survive theologically. No one even the “Orthodox” (big O) had an issue with Rome until much later in the early history of the church. Of course if they do we could go down the not being established by an apostle see issue!

 

[Contarini]

Small c is appropriate you do not get to use the proper name of Catholic which would apply to my church.

Use of “Catholic,” with a large or small letter, implies a claim to be part of the Catholic Church mentioned in the Creeds. Protestants, not just Anglicans, claim this. Protestants generally use a small “c” in an attempt to make it clear that their understanding of the Church is in fact quite different from yours. Anglo-Catholics, who claim to be part of the Catholic Church in a way that Protestants are not, typically use the large “C.” Myself I think everyone should use the large C, and then we would all be clear that we are talking about the same thing and disputing just who belongs to it.

You can’t impose your preferred usage on Protestants, or on those Anglicans who claim not to be Protestants, in a country where there is religious freedom. To say “you can’t use ‘Catholic’” is to say “you can’t make a theological claim with which I disagree.”

Edwin

 

[GKC]

Use of “Catholic,” with a large or small letter, implies a claim to be part of the Catholic Church mentioned in the Creeds. Protestants, not just Anglicans, claim this. Protestants generally use a small “c” in an attempt to make it clear that their understanding of the Church is in fact quite different from yours. Anglo-Catholics, who claim to be part of the Catholic Church in a way that Protestants are not, typically use the large “C.” Myself I think everyone should use the large C, and then we would all be clear that we are talking about the same thing and disputing just who belongs to it.

You can’t impose your preferred usage on Protestants, or on those Anglicans who claim not to be Protestants, in a country where there is religious freedom. To say “you can’t use ‘Catholic’” is to say “you can’t make a theological claim with which I disagree.”

Edwin

True.

GKC

 

[eightydeuce82]

Use of “Catholic,” with a large or small letter, implies a claim to be part of the Catholic Church mentioned in the Creeds. Protestants, not just Anglicans, claim this. Protestants generally use a small “c” in an attempt to make it clear that their understanding of the Church is in fact quite different from yours. Anglo-Catholics, who claim to be part of the Catholic Church in a way that Protestants are not, typically use the large “C.” Myself I think everyone should use the large C, and then we would all be clear that we are talking about the same thing and disputing just who belongs to it.

You can’t impose your preferred usage on Protestants, or on those Anglicans who claim not to be Protestants, in a country where there is religious freedom. To say “you can’t use ‘Catholic’” is to say “you can’t make a theological claim with which I disagree.”

Edwin

Ok lets try this friend I didn’t write this but same conversation see if you can pull this out.

suppose, then, that you are going to say that you are a member of the Church of God, yes? After all, your Lutheran church is “of God”, right? And capitalization means nothing, right?

And you are a member of the United Church of God, yes? After all, your Lutheran church is “united as the church of God”, right? And capitalization means nothing, right?

And you are a member of Christ’s Sanctified Holy Church, yes?
After all, your Lutheran church is “Christ’s church, and is sanctified, and holy”, right? And capitalization means nothing, right?

And you are a member of the God Is Love Pentecostal Church, yes? After all, your Lutheran church does profess that “God is love”, right? And you recognize Pentecost, yes? And capitalization means nothing, right?

Of course being able to claim Catholic would require a history longer than 490 years.