Episcopalian Vs. Catholic?

[GKC]

mary I of england was not executed. she did die a normal death. she thought she was pregnant and was not.

she did try to bring england back to rome again though, but failed.

Which means, of course, that you were wrong ("(…it was during elizabeth’s reign that Catholic Bloody Mary was executed. i am not sure under whose reign the prayer book of 1662 was established , if it was elizabeth or edward vi.")

and I was right. Mary I, Queen of England, was the daughter of Catherine and Henry, and is refered to in most histories as Mary Tudor. Elizabeth was her half sister. It is Mary Tudor, the Queen of England, as Mary I, who is called as Bloody Mary. And she died a natural death, yes. Thus, Bloody Mary was not executed, at any time, by anyone.

Mary Stuart, Queen of Scotland and another lady all together from Bloody Mary, was executed by Elizabeth I, long after Bloody Mary had died.

Books, in fact are my major hobby. In my total library of approx. 20,000 volumes, collected over 50+ years, I own (and have read) several hundred on the Tudor period. I’d be happy to recommend a few for you to read. It would keep you from doing things like this, if you knew a little more about the period. Her hysterical pregnancy, for example, was closely related her worries over her relationship with her husband Phillip, of Spain.

GKC

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[GKC]

Ok, so according to wikipedia, which I consider fairly reliable, Elizabeth I actually set in place a decree which eventually became the true Protestant Church of England. Mary I had returned England to Catholicism over several years, through parliament and persecutions. She did not “fail” she just died. In fact I would not call 300+ executed dissenters and “heretics” much of a failure! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_I_of_England

Once Elizabeth had the throne, she began what’s called the Elizabethan Religious Settlement.

And this my friends is the true origin of what we know today as Anglicanism.

Henry the VIII started it, Mary reversed it and stomped out all opposed, and Elizabeth revived and finished it.

GKC: Thanks for the recommend on the book, I am going to look at getting it soon because I have an interest in all of this complicated dry historicity as well!

Grandfather: Pfft. Nevermind. I guess OLD does not always equate to WISE.

You are very welcome. Books, as I have said, are my hobby, and have been my business, in the past. I can recommend others.

And as to whether old always equates to wise, maybe not. But wise doesn’t always equate to what we believe, either. I know many wise RCs.

GKC

 

[anon52328184]

the truth of the matter, under both anglicanism and catholicism in england,
many people were persecuted, tortured and killed. all in the name of religion.
perhaps, this is why today, the Catholic church is a little suspect of the anglicans.

although i hear that in England today, catholicism is gaining ground and soon there may be more catholics in england than anglicans.

 

[Peter_J]

BTW, concerning the bloody reign of Mary Tudor, is there any record of a pope calling for her to reform her policies?

I’m sure that Pope Benedict wouldn’t even dream if remaining silent of there were a Catholic monarch today who used such methods to get people to become Catholic.

 

[anon52328184]

It was much deeper than Henry wanting a decree of nullity, as you say. And broader too, across Europe.

Rather than reading historical fiction (which is fun, to be sure), I’d recommend J. J. Scarisbrick’s magnificent HENRY VIII bio, for an understanding of the man, the era and the issues. Not to worry, Scarisbrick is RC. The book is essential.

And certainly, reading widely and deeply is recommended. History is complex. And it was Edward VI’s period that saw the shift to the reformed side (that’s addressed to deborahaz).

GKC

i believe during the reign of henry viii, it was already shifting to the reformed side. after the death of Mary I, Elizabeth returned the church to a protestant religion again, but, i believe she tried to please both sides.

 

[mercygate]

Which means, of course, that you were wrong ("(…it was during elizabeth’s reign that Catholic Bloody Mary was executed. i am not sure under whose reign the prayer book of 1662 was established , if it was elizabeth or edward vi.")

and I was right. Mary I, Queen of England, was the daughter of Catherine and Henry, and is refered to in most histories as Mary Tudor. Elizabeth was her half sister. It is Mary Tudor, the Queen of England, as Mary I, who is called as Bloody Mary. And she died a natural death, yes. Thus, Bloody Mary was not executed, at any time, by anyone.

Mary Stuart, Queen of Scotland and another lady all together from Bloody Mary, was executed by Elizabeth I, long after Bloody Mary had died.

Books, in fact are my major hobby. In my total library of approx. 20,000 volumes, collected over 50+ years, I own (and have read) several hundred on the Tudor period. I’d be happy to recommend a few for you to read. It would keep you from doing things like this, if you knew a little more about the period. Her hysterical pregnancy, for example, was closely related her worries over her relationship with her husband Phillip, of Spain.

GKC

.

WARNING: GKC is heavily armed and extremely dangerous! Anybody who wants to mess with him when it comes to the history of the Reformation in England is gonna wind up like dog-barf on the oriental carpet. GK can beat up anybody who looks at him cross eyed. And we have enjoyed watching him do it many times.

 

[TriuneUnity]

WARNING: GKC is heavily armed and extremely dangerous! Anybody who wants to mess with him when it comes to the history of the Reformation in England is gonna wind up like dog-barf on the oriental carpet. GK can beat up anybody who looks at him cross eyed. And we have enjoyed watching him do it many times.

I think he is actually not a he, but a supercomputer than was built by Britain to monitor the actions of rogue terrorist states as well as the G8(7?) nations.

When he says 20,000 books, I think he actually means 20,000 Gigabytes of memory.

It’s just a theory.

 

[anon52328184]

he’s already made a couple of mistakes. i am not afraid of him. i am sure he is well read and very learned and that is good. thanks for the warning though.

i had to correct him on bloody mary. he was insinuating that bloody mary was mary queen of scotts and i knew differently. however, i also erred, by saying that bloody mary was executed, and she did not. it was mary, queen of scots, who was executed.

it is easy to get the two marys confused. i am sure he has done much more reading on the topics than i have.

 

[GKC]

i believe during the reign of henry viii, it was already shifting to the reformed side. after the death of Mary I, Elizabeth returned the church to a protestant religion again, but, i believe she tried to please both sides.

Except for one point here, I agree with this too.

My opinion comes from a lot of reading. How about yours?

GKC

 

[GKC]

WARNING: GKC is heavily armed and extremely dangerous! Anybody who wants to mess with him when it comes to the history of the Reformation in England is gonna wind up like dog-barf on the oriental carpet. GK can beat up anybody who looks at him cross eyed. And we have enjoyed watching him do it many times.

As Sherlock Holmes once said, I have been beaten.

I just never talk about it.

GKC

 

[mercygate]

As Sherlock Holmes once said, I have been beaten.

I just never talk about it.

GKC

I don’t believe it. And I KNOW you never confused Mary Queen of Scots with Bloody Mary. Fo sho.

 

[anon52328184]

Except for one point here, I agree with this too.

My opinion comes from a lot of reading. How about yours?

GKC

yes, i have done a lot of reading, but i am sure it cannot equal the amount of reading that you have done GKC. i bow to your royal highness of all things English! LOL

 

[TriuneUnity]

I don’t believe it. And I KNOW you never confused Mary Queen of Scots with Bloody Mary. Fo sho.

Well, to be fair here, it’s easy to confuse. It’s not like we’re comparing Mary, Queen of Scots, to Bloody Susan

 

[GKC]

he’s already made a couple of mistakes. i am not afraid of him. i am sure he is well read and very learned and that is good. thanks for the warning though.

i had to correct him on bloody mary. he was insinuating that bloody mary was mary queen of scotts and i knew differently. however, i also erred, by saying that bloody mary was executed, and she did not. it was mary, queen of scots, who was executed.

it is easy to get the two marys confused. i am sure he has done much more reading on the topics than i have.

Oh, dear.

Not to worry. No one is afraid of me.

Go and read your post #163. Where you said that under Elizabeth, Catholic Bloody Mary was executed. Then go and read my post 165, where I told you that Bloody Mary wasn’t executed, and you were confusing her with Mary Queen of Scots, whom Mary did have executed (quick, how were Mary Queen of Scots and Elizabeth related?).

And then look at my post at 4:29, when I repeated that correction for you. And C&Ped your original error. Which I just quoted here.

From time to time, I make mistakes. But I made none here. The person who made a mistake was the one who posted # 163. Any idea who that was?

Books. Highly recommended. Allison Weir did a book on Mary Stuart and Elizabeth. Mary Stuart is the one called Mary Queen of Scots, by the way.

GKC

 

[mercygate]

Well, to be fair here, it’s easy to confuse. It’s not like we’re comparing Mary, Queen of Scots, to Bloody Susan

Yeah but for GK & me, these dames are (embarrassingly) relatives. We know what they ate for breakfast. I could recognize Mary, Queen of Scots’ embroidery, and I know what kind of dog she had. GK is on a first-name basis with 'em. LOL. He’s not confused. At ALL.

 

[GKC]

yes, i have done a lot of reading, but i am sure it cannot equal the amount of reading that you have done GKC. i bow to your royal highness of all things English! LOL

I accept your bow. Now, repeat after me:

"Mary Tudor died in bed.

Mary Stuart lost her head."

That might help.

GKC

 

[TriuneUnity]

Yeah but for GK & me, these dames are (embarrassingly) relatives. We know what they ate for breakfast. I could recognize Mary, Queen of Scots’ embroidery, and I know what kind of dog she had. GK is on a first-name basis with 'em. LOL. He’s not confused. At ALL.

You need to get a hobby LOL. Though I guess knowing Mary’s embroidery would count as a hobby.

 

[GKC]

I don’t believe it. And I KNOW you never confused Mary Queen of Scots with Bloody Mary. Fo sho.

It’s difficult to pin me on Henry and the Tudor bunch. But there are weak spots, even in my other specialties.

Thank you for the kind words.

GKC

 

[GKC]

the truth of the matter, under both anglicanism and catholicism in england,
many people were persecuted, tortured and killed. all in the name of religion.
perhaps, this is why today, the Catholic church is a little suspect of the anglicans.

although i hear that in England today, catholicism is gaining ground and soon there may be more catholics in england than anglicans.

True enough, as to the history. And the distrust worked both ways.

GKC

 

[GKC]

I think he is actually not a he, but a supercomputer than was built by Britain to monitor the actions of rogue terrorist states as well as the G8(7?) nations.

When he says 20,000 books, I think he actually means 20,000 Gigabytes of memory.

It’s just a theory.

I have been found out.

GKC