To go through these accusations of Gurney’s one by one…
We’ve been down this road plenty of times. It’s like a dog chasing its tail. I’m out.
Paganism: Gurney has already insisted that the actions of nutty Catholics cannot be taken as normative of the Catholic Church. Yet that is exactly what he does for the Episcopal Church! To be clear, there is only one organization that can speak for the Episcopal Church: The General Convention. Not even Bishop Jefferts-Schori. Certainly the General Convention had never endorsed paganism. The actions of “Some parish in Los Angeles,” if we are as fair with TEC as Gurney is with Catholicism, cannot be taken as normative. But, how many Episcopal Church have actually endorsed paganism? Does he submit any evidence that pagan worship is common? Why does he ignore the constant protests from Episcopalians that such claims are just false? This, of all the claims Gurney makes, is the most absurd and most unfair. Seriously, Gurney, just drop it. If you have examples of Episcopalians doing so, then I will condemn them with you. But they are not actions that can be taken as normative to TEC.
You are using an argument of numbers. Not buying it. First of all, I’d wager with you that the Catholic Church has infinitely more gay clergy in its ranks. But see, I can admit the weaknesses of my Church. The difference is that homosexuality is not accepted by the Catholic Church as morally acceptable. The TEC has officially condoned openly sodomizing men to be worthy of the priesthood and something to be lauded. I’m simply saying that 2 out of 100 isn’t the problem. It’s the fact that it’s ACCEPTED and ecclesiastically no big woop in TEC now. An active sodomizing Catholic priest would be directed to stop, confess, and repent. The Catholic Church is failing miserably in dealing with sexual predators and homosexual clergy so Catholicism has its own dirty laundry that really really really needs cleaning. But the official position of the Church doesn’t accept any of it as normal at least. And again, I’m NOT acting like it’s the central issue of TEC’s mission. That’s silly. You’re again putting words in my mouth. I never said it was the central issue, it is “an” issue. But it’s an important one that should not be discounted or brushed aside. And once again, for the umpteenth time, I never said YOU as an individual are a hedonistic, evil, horrible man who is not serving Christ in your own way. Again, words in my mouth. I have no doubt you are probably a better man than I. And I have said as much in previous posts. You choose to ignore that.
Gayness: TEC is indeed reconsidering its stance on homosexuality. Yet acting like it is the central issue of TEC’s mission is silly. We have 2 gay bishops out over 100. If you don’t agree with us, fair enough. But for pete’s sake, grant us the charity to disagree with you while also trusting that we are trying to serve Christ the best we know how.
**I will continue to disagree. This issue is heterodox, reaks of social justice and liberation theology type thinking. I agree with the AMIA Anglican report’s conclusions about women’s ordination, the Orthodox Church’s evaluation and the Roman Catholic evaluation of this very disturbing trend. **
Girls: Yeah, we have female priests too. This one actually is common past the point of mere toleration. Again, disagree, but be charitable.
Wow, now who’s being uncharitable…? 
And yes, the TEC is pro-abortion.
Abortion: The Episcopal Church is not pro-abortion. **Unlike the Catholic Church, we do not have a body with nothing better to do that proclaim an official Church position on every issue possible. ** The General Convention does so to some extent, but that is not its primary function. We simply don’t have any body that comments on abortion at all. If you ask Episcopalians, you will probably be surprised to find a wide spectrum of opinion… just like the Catholic Church.
**I know all about what happens at an Episcopal service, Zach. I went to an Episcopal church parish for seven years. If you believe in apostolic succesion, I would highly suggest going back and reading the early fathers, especially men like Ignatius of Antioch, Polycarp, Justin Martyr and other greats who, some of which, lived during the apostolic age and actually were ordained by the apostles. These men did not condone gay marriages, abortion, and especially female ordination. Anyone can lay hands and claim apostolic succession. Living the apostolic deposit of faith is a whole other matter. **
I will conclude by again describing the day to day life of the vast majority of Episcopal parishes. We worship Jesus Christ in the Trinity. We believe and profess the Nicene Creed. We make confession of sins part of our worship. We believe in the Real Presence of the Eucharist. We believe our bishops and priests are in succession from the apostles. This is the life of worship of the Episcopal Church I know. This thread does not do justice to what IS the norm of TEC.
What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
Zach
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