Episcopalian vs. Catholic

[TriuneUnity]

Sigh. Yeah, I was surprised to hear this and the “God bless them; I don’t” statement to recent Anglican Tiber-swimmers. I guess I was surprised by the timing more than anything else. But as I thought about it, I began to realize that all of us and all of our respective communions seem to be enduring extraordinarily tough times. This is surely not the time to point fingers at others. But the current leaders do not know what to do to end their respective crises, so they attack the others while they’re vulnerable. Maybe it’s all too human a response. And sometimes the attacks have a basis in truth, though words spoken without Christian charity have no place in the mouths of any bishops. But on Holy Saturday? Strange timing indeed. Perhaps indicative of something else going on behind the scenes or beneath the surface…

Very poor taste… the Holy Saturday part. It is amazing to me how the leaders of mainline churches (and I realize that the CoE is kind of considered the head of the worldwide communion, though most Anglican provinces within the communion are not mainline) and other theological liberals are so quick to point out the sins of conservative church bodies, yet their own churches are falling to pieces and they will react like wolves if you dare point out their sinful behavior. I mean, seriously… you have 2/3rds of the Anglican communion on the verge of not recognizing the ECUSA, and Rowan Williams is worried about the RCC in Ireland??

It is not necessarily that the RCC in Ireland hasn’t lost credibility. To many, it certainly has. But who in the world is Rowan Williams to point it out?

 

[blazerdave]

Very poor taste… the Holy Saturday part. It is amazing to me how the leaders of mainline churches (and I realize that the CoE is kind of considered the head of the worldwide communion, though most Anglican provinces within the communion are not mainline) and other theological liberals are so quick to point out the sins of conservative church bodies, yet their own churches are falling to pieces and they will react like wolves if you dare point out their sinful behavior. I mean, seriously… you have 2/3rds of the Anglican communion on the verge of not recognizing the ECUSA, and Rowan Williams is worried about the RCC in Ireland??

It is not necessarily that the RCC in Ireland hasn’t lost credibility. To many, it certainly has. But who in the world is Rowan Williams to point it out?

So true so true

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Yeah, Rowan Williams lecturing anyone on coherence, authority, unity, and cohesion is like Edward James Olmos giving lectures on skin care or Larry King giving marriage seminars…

Very poor taste… the Holy Saturday part. It is amazing to me how the leaders of mainline churches (and I realize that the CoE is kind of considered the head of the worldwide communion, though most Anglican provinces within the communion are not mainline) and other theological liberals are so quick to point out the sins of conservative church bodies, yet their own churches are falling to pieces and they will react like wolves if you dare point out their sinful behavior. I mean, seriously… you have 2/3rds of the Anglican communion on the verge of not recognizing the ECUSA, and Rowan Williams is worried about the RCC in Ireland??

It is not necessarily that the RCC in Ireland hasn’t lost credibility. To many, it certainly has. But who in the world is Rowan Williams to point it out?

 

[Usbek_de_Perse]

This should have happened on March 15: et tu Benedicté!

Yeah, Rowan Williams lecturing anyone on coherence, authority, unity, and cohesion is like Edward James Olmos giving lectures on skin care or Larry King giving marriage seminars…

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

LOL…yep. The way all of both communions are behaving is not their finest hour for sure…pitiful

This should have happened on March 15: et tu Benedicté!

 

[CMatt25]

When you say “Catholics,” are you referring to many of the laity out there or the Church herself? Surely you’re not comparing the widespread “yeah well, Paul didn’t really mean ________” theology that is rampant in the Episcopal Church with Catholicism where there are some liberal priests and theologians here and there, right? Would you really say that Catholicism in general teaches that Scripture is mostly allegory and symbolism, just didactic, not literal?

Both. You know as well as I do many things in the Bible are not taken literally. A 6 day 24 hr evening and the morning was a day Creation, women not speaking in Church etc etc.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

May I ask, Matt, are you a former Episcopalian or thinking of joining TEC?

Both. You know as well as I do many things in the Bible are not taken literally. A 6 day 24 hr evening and the morning was a day Creation, women not speaking in Church etc etc.

 

[CMatt25]

May I ask, Matt, are you a former Episcopalian or thinking of joining TEC?

No Catholic since 6 wks old later confirmed. If I wasn’t Catholic TEC might be of some interest to me. I find a lot of love for others and less judging in TEC and in a few other churches. My mission is to strive to love one another not condemn. Have to get up in 6 hrs for Mass. God bless and peace and a most blessed and Happy Easter gurney! Good night.

 

[Usbek_de_Perse]

The Lord is risen!

One day of respite from all this, in sha’allah!

No Catholic since 6 wks old later confirmed. If I wasn’t Catholic TEC might be of some interest to me. I find a lot of love for others and less judging in TEC and in a few other churches. My mission is to strive to love one another not condemn. Have to get up in 6 hrs for Mass. God bless and peace and a most blessed and Happy Easter gurney! Good night.

 

[Usbek_de_Perse]

We had some rodents chew through the wires of our PA system, so I suggested to our rector that we get a church cat. If said cat is quite adept at zinging rodents, we could call it “Rat-zinger”!

Happy Easter

 

[CMatt25]

The Lord is risen!

One day of respite from all this, in sha’allah!

Alleluia! And there was great music at the Mass I attended today. Very uplifting to me! And a few little children even wandering the aisle with their baskets awaiting the egg hunt. Now off to dinner! Happy Easter!

 

[blazerdave]

Happy Easter to all!

 

[Yggdrasil]

http://www.bible-art.info/Resurr40.jpg

Happy Easter to all. Beautiful day for it here in New Jersey. We had Victoria’s Missa Simile Est Regnum Caelorum.

I would love it if a church had a cat, or even multiple cats. Let them wander around at their leisure. There would be something serenely decadent about it.

 

[Zach82]

As a devoted Episcopalian, I had no idea that we were so preoccupied with gay sex as this thread seems to imply. After reading all this I would think we talked about it every week.

Zach

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Being “obsessed” with something and being strongly opposed to it are two separate entities. Pro-life Christians like myself are not “obsessed” with the unborn, we are are strongly motivated to save their innocent lives. Talking about an issue a great deal because one is concerned about it doesn’t make it an obsession or hate-mongering as some like to label it. The extremely troubling new sexuality model that the Episcopal Church has concocted and spreads its congregants is troubling, un-orthodox, sinful, and only encourages a sinful, soul-destroying lifestyle. Preoccupation or genuine concern for people’s souls? Obsession or a serious outrage at the blatant mockery of God’s creation that turns Christian morality on its head, perverting our sense of the sexuality God calls us to?

As a devoted Episcopalian, I had no idea that we were so preoccupied with gay sex as this thread seems to imply. After reading all this I would think we talked about it every week.

Zach

 

[CMatt25]

Being “obsessed” with something and being strongly opposed to it are two separate entities. Pro-life Christians like myself are not “obsessed” with the unborn, we are are strongly motivated to save their innocent lives. Talking about an issue a great deal because one is concerned about it doesn’t make it an obsession or hate-mongering as some like to label it. The extremely troubling new sexuality model that the Episcopal Church has concocted and spreads its congregants is troubling, un-orthodox, sinful, and only encourages a sinful, soul-destroying lifestyle. Preoccupation or genuine concern for people’s souls? Obsession or a serious outrage at the blatant mockery of God’s creation that turns Christian morality on its head, perverting our sense of the sexuality God calls us to?

2 way street. Episcopalians talking about their beliefs and the Scripture they sight and interpretation there of should be given the same respect as you ask for yourself. What you describe as concoted and mockery is your belief but perhaps not theirs.

 

[Zach82]

When asked how Rome and Canterbury were so different, the choir immediately shouts that we accept gays. Most were able to list little else. Which I find incredibly odd! If you were to make a few short sentences about what the Roman Catholic Church was all about, would you say “Well, we think homosexuality is sinful!”? I rather doubt it, and I rather doubt the apostles would either. So if homosexuality is not to be taken as the defining belief of the Roman Church, then it seems rather unfair to take it as a defining belief of the Episcopal Church.

I posted because I think the characterization of the Episcopal Church on this thread is completely unfair. In the vast majority of Episcopal parishes, we perform perfectly orthodox worship, believe and profess the Creed, and receive weekly Eucharist which we believe is truly the body and blood of Christ our savior. We pray for the guidance of our bishops from God, which we believe are bishops by merit of their succession from the apostles. It isn’t unheard of to find an Episcopalian that prays the rosary. True, the choir director might be gay, but here’s the thing is… yours probably is too.

Zach

 

[nhylan]

LoL, awesome post! I agree the level of generalization of the perceived negatives of Episcopalian-ism in this thread has gotten a little out of hand. I know a lot of Episcopalians that love their church because its so similar in many regards to the Catholic Church but more socially liberal.

When asked how Rome and Canterbury were so different, the choir immediately shouts that we accept gays. Most were able to list little else. Which I find incredibly odd! If you were to make a few short sentences about what the Roman Catholic Church was all about, would you say “Well, we think homosexuality is sinful!”? I rather doubt it, and I rather doubt the apostles would either. So if homosexuality is not to be taken as the defining belief of the Roman Church, then it seems rather unfair to take it as a defining belief of the Episcopal Church.

I posted because I think the characterization of the Episcopal Church on this thread is completely unfair. In the vast majority of Episcopal parishes, we perform perfectly orthodox worship, believe and profess the Creed, and receive weekly Eucharist which we believe is truly the body and blood of Christ our savior. We pray for the guidance of our bishops from God, which we believe are bishops by merit of their succession from the apostles. It isn’t unheard of to find an Episcopalian that prays the rosary. True, the choir director might be gay, but here’s the thing is… yours probably is too.

Zach

 

[CMatt25]

Zach and Nhylan,

:clapping:

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Please cite Scripture for me then and prove to me

a) That women were and should be pastors/priests
b) That homosexuality is not only tolerated but encouraged and that gays should marry
c) That abortion is tolerated and sanctioned by God
d) That Christ is just “a” way to God, not “the” way
e) That “transgenders” and cross-dressers were clergy and should be
f) That Christians should co-worship with pagans
g) That God is female
h) That sex outside of marriage is permissible

I’d truly like to hear a rational response. You can shrug all you want, but my belief more closely mirrors orthodoxy for the last 2,000 years while those beliefs you defend are innovated, not Scriptural in the slightest, and philosophies given to the age we live in–not of God.

2 way street. Episcopalians talking about their beliefs and the Scripture they sight and interpretation there of should be given the same respect as you ask for yourself. What you describe as concoted and mockery is your belief but perhaps not theirs.