Episcopalian

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But I would ask you (and also Deegie) to what extent you agree. How do you define the “Real Presence?” Do you subscribe to the Catholic Doctrine of Transubstantiation? Or Cranmer’s idea of receptionism? Or something else?
I think you are correct in describing the position of Hooker and Cranmer as receptionism. I should point out, however, that many would still call that a doctrine of Real Presence. The distinction between it and other theories is that in receptionism, the change is within the communicant and not within the eucharistic elements themselves. Regardless of whether you accept that suggestion, however, eucharistic theology has never been one of those “we must all agree” dogmas, so you will find significant variation among individual Anglicans.

As to my position…I am much closer to the Tractarians than to the earlier Anglican writers. I believe there is some sort of physical presence, but as Symphorian nicely expressed, I am “reticent on defining the precise mode of His presence”. I’m okay with mystery and think there is a long history (especially in the East) of valuing that mystery. Indeed, most of the early church fathers made no effort to elucidate a mechanism of change. That said, I do not believe in Transubstantiation. If pinned down, I would probably come closest to Luther’s view…at least with what Luther said and not what others have attributed to him over the years. For example, his Large Catechism says that the elements become “the true body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, in and under the bread and wine which we Christians are commanded by the Word of Christ to eat and to drink”. That is a statement I can easily affirm.

I should note, by the way, that the Anglican-Roman Catholic Agreed Statement on the Eucharist contains another way of putting it with which I agree: “Communion with Christ in the Eucharist presupposes his true presence, effectually signified by the bread and wine which, in this mystery, become his body and blood.* …its purpose is to transmit the life of the crucified and risen Christ to his body, the Church, so that its members may be more fully united with Christ and with one another.”
 
Please provide support for this statement.

Anna
It’s just a logical conclusion.

I only ment that this site, among vast other sources, (the best being the Bible and the Catechism of the Catholic Church) offers the possibility of some truth.

*Some *people are ready to hear it through the Holy Spirit working through them. Only Grace overcomes invincible ignorance; but one can open themselves to this Grace through searching.

If they choose to walk away from the truth, they are opening ourselves to culpability.
This is a thing between a person and God alone. I’m pretty sure God doesn’t let this happen easily; He’ll keep prodding, no matter how stubborn one is.

Its not easy by any means to tell right from wrong, but it becomes easier as our discernment grows.
 
They believe they do. And I, by no means, am an authority in this matter; but it seems to me that this would fall under the realm of “invincible ignorance” … at least for most.

Meaning that God *may *(again NOT an authority here) allow for real presence despite the horrible problems surrounding the Episcopal seperation from the church founded by Christ.

Did I mention that I’m not in any way an authority in this matter?

Now - the invincible becomes vincible through places like this site.
Please provide support for this statement.

Anna
It’s just a logical conclusion.

I only ment that this site, among vast other sources, (the best being the Bible and the Catechism of the Catholic Church) offers the possibility of some truth.

*Some *people are ready to hear it through the Holy Spirit working through them. Only Grace overcomes invincible ignorance; but one can open themselves to this Grace through searching.

If they choose to walk away from the truth, they are opening ourselves to culpability.
This is a thing between a person and God alone. I’m pretty sure God doesn’t let this happen easily; He’ll keep prodding, no matter how stubborn one is.

Its not easy by any means to tell right from wrong, but it becomes easier as our discernment grows.
InspiritCarol,

Knowing what Catholicism teaches does not necessarily lead to accepting all the claims of Rome.

The way Catholics view those who do not swim the Tiber is somewhat puzzling to me. For example: the Eastern Orthodox are certainly aware of Catholic doctrine and the authority the Pope claims. Yet, they do not accept it. I don’t see a charge of culpability against them for not entering into Communion with Rome. In fact, Rome speaks very warmly of their separated Orthodox brethren.

This is clearly expressed in IOANNES PAULUS PP. II UT UNUM SINT.

We must be honest and truthful with one another. However, I think one must be careful when it comes to charges of culpability. I think we both agree that only God can judge the heart and only God can judge our culpability.

We can learn from one another, even be inspired by one another, despite our theological disagreements. This sentiment is articulated in an article by Fr. John Crossin, OSFS, Catholic News Service’s Faith Alive blog in Fall 2012.

The Ecumenical Movement: A School for Virtue, an article by
*
. . .The search leads us to value the virtues of our ecumenical colleagues. “…anything wrought by the grace of the Holy Spirit in the hearts of our separated brethren can contribute to our edification.” (#4) I always remember that after Vatican II one of the senior priest-theologians of my religious order engaged in regular conversation with an Anglican colleague. He remarked one day at lunch that while they had theological differences, the Anglican priest was outstanding in living the Gospel. . . .

Anna*
 
Yep.
I’m not doin’ the chargin’.
Nooo chargin’ here.
Please don’t read animosity into my statements.
 
InspiritCarol,

Knowing what Catholicism teaches does not necessarily lead to accepting all the claims of Rome.

The way Catholics view those who do not swim the Tiber is somewhat puzzling to me. For example: the Eastern Orthodox are certainly aware of Catholic doctrine and the authority the Pope claims. Yet, they do not accept it. I don’t see a charge of culpability against them for not entering into Communion with Rome. In fact, Rome speaks very warmly of their separated Orthodox brethren.

This is clearly expressed in IOANNES PAULUS PP. II UT UNUM SINT.

We must be honest and truthful with one another. However, I think one must be careful when it comes to charges of culpability. I think we both agree that only God can judge the heart and only God can judge our culpability.

We can learn from one another, even be inspired by one another, despite our theological disagreements. This sentiment is articulated in an article by Fr. John Crossin, OSFS, Catholic News Service’s Faith Alive blog in Fall 2012.

The Ecumenical Movement: A School for Virtue, an article by
*
. . .The search leads us to value the virtues of our ecumenical colleagues. “…anything wrought by the grace of the Holy Spirit in the hearts of our separated brethren can contribute to our edification.” (#4) I always remember that after Vatican II one of the senior priest-theologians of my religious order engaged in regular conversation with an Anglican colleague. He remarked one day at lunch that while they had theological differences, the Anglican priest was outstanding in living the Gospel. . . .

Anna*
Yep.
I’m not doin’ the chargin’.
Nooo chargin’ here.
Please don’t read animosity into my statements.
InspiritCarol,

I didn’t read animositiy into your statements. I even said, “I think we both agree that only God can judge the heart and only God can judge our culpability.”

Anna
 
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