Episcopalians and Real Presence?

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Does anyone know what the Episcopalian understanding is regarding the Real Presence? Do they believe in the Real Presence, or is it a symbol?
 
marimagi said:
Does anyone know what the Episcopalian understanding is regarding the Real Presence? Do they believe in the Real Presence, or is it a symbol?
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As with all things regarding Anglicans, it depends on which one you ask.

GKC
 
Among Episcopalians, as with Anglicans in general, beliefs about the eucharist range from transubstantiation to the Zwinglian mere memorial meal.
 
marimagi said:
Does anyone know what the Episcopalian understanding is regarding the Real Presence? Do they believe in the Real Presence, or is it a symbol?
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Don’t think so but not sure. In any event they don’t have consecrated hosts or priests so even if they believe in it, what they are looking at isn’t the real presence but just bread.
 
Polycarp1 said:
Don’t think so but not sure. In any event they don’t have consecrated hosts or priests so even if they believe in it, what they are looking at isn’t the real presence but just bread.
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As a former Episcopalian, and as a former theology student, I assure you that there are a number of Episcopalians who do beliveve in the Real Presence. Your latter point, from the perspective of definitive Catholic teaching stands, with the possible exception of Episcopal ministers who were previously ordained as priests in one of the apostolic churches.
 
RyanBlack said:
As a former Episcopalian, and as a former theology student, I assure you that there are a number of Episcopalians who do beliveve in the Real Presence. Your latter point, from the perspective of definitive Catholic teaching stands, with the possible exception of Episcopal ministers who were previously ordained as priests in one of the apostolic churches.
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As there are many Anglicans who have no concern about Apostolicae Curae, or the validity of their orders.

GKC
 
Episcopalians and Anglicans are deliberately vague about what they mean. This is because the Church of England wanted to accommodate as many people as possible, some who were more Protestant in sensibility and some who were more Catholic.

The result is that Episcopalians/Anglicans of many different theological views can all participate in good conscience.
 
ltwin said:
Episcopalians and Anglicans are deliberately vague about what they mean. This is because the Church of England wanted to accommodate as many people as possible, some who were more Protestant in sensibility and some who were more Catholic.

The result is that Episcopalians/Anglicans of many different theological views can all participate in good conscience.
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Though some Anglicans can be quite exact as to what they mean, re: the Eucharist. But it is not a de fide thing.

GKC
 
GKC said:
As there are many Anglicans who have no concern about Apostolicae Curae, or the validity of their orders.

GKC
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Of course. I was speaking from the Catholic point of view.
 
RyanBlack said:
As a former Episcopalian, and as a former theology student, I assure you that there are a number of Episcopalians who do beliveve in the Real Presence. Your latter point, from the perspective of definitive Catholic teaching stands, with the possible exception of Episcopal ministers who were previously ordained as priests in one of the apostolic churches.
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Did you study theology from a protestant perspective, Catholic, or both? Also, I noticed that you are Ruthenian Catholic. Is that an EC Church?
 
Polycarp1 said:
Don’t think so but not sure. In any event they don’t have consecrated hosts or priests so even if they believe in it, what they are looking at isn’t the real presence but just bread.
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If you mean correct form and intention, many do. It’s been covered too many times for me to list it. Just thought you’d want to know.
 
I can assert without hesitation that Episcoplians believe in the Real Presence. All one need do is attend Mass in an Episcopal parish to realize that they fall to their knees in worship to the Incarnate Word made flesh in the Sacrament.
 
Polycarp1 said:
Don’t think so but not sure. In any event they don’t have consecrated hosts or priests so even if they believe in it, what they are looking at isn’t the real presence but just bread.
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This is so offensive and not the belief of the Roman Catholic Church 😦
 
While there is significant diversity between individual Episcopalians/Anglicans, historically they do have some core teaching regarding the Mass in general and the Eucharistic elements in particular. These are three Articles from the Anglican/Episcopal Thirty-Nine Articles of Religion which is the foundational theological statement for these churches:

XXVIII. Of the Lord’s Supper.
The Supper of the Lord is not only a sign of the love that Christians ought to have among themselves one to another, but rather it is a Sacrament of our Redemption by Christ’s death: insomuch that to such as rightly, worthily, and with faith, receive the same, the Bread which we break is a partaking of the Body of Christ; and likewise the Cup of Blessing is a partaking of the Blood of Christ.

Transubstantiation (or the change of the substance of Bread and Wine) in the Supper of the Lord, cannot be proved by Holy Writ; but is repugnant to the plain words of Scripture, overthroweth the nature of a Sacrament, and hath given occasion to many superstitions.

The Body of Christ is given, taken, and eaten, in the Supper, only after an heavenly and spiritual manner. And the mean whereby the Body of Christ is received and eaten in the Supper, is Faith.

The Sacrament of the Lord’s Supper was not by Christ’s ordinance reserved, carried about, lifted up, or worshipped.

XXIX. Of the Wicked, which eat not the Body of Christ in the use of the Lord’s Supper.
The Wicked, and such as be void of a lively faith, although they do carnally and visibly press with their teeth (as Saint Augustine saith) the Sacrament of the Body and Blood of Christ; yet in no wise are they partakers of Christ: but rather, to their condemnation, do eat and drink the sign or Sacrament of so great a thing.

XXX. Of both Kinds.
The Cup of the Lord is not to be denied to the Lay-people: for both the parts of the Lord’s Sacrament, by Christ’s ordinance and commandment, ought to be ministered to all Christian men alike.
 
Rfrmtn_Catholic said:
While there is significant diversity between individual Episcopalians/Anglicans, historically they do have some core teaching regarding the Mass in general and the Eucharistic elements in particular. These are three Articles from the Anglican/Episcopal Thirty-Nine Articles of Religion which is the foundational theological statement for these churches:

XXVIII. Of the Lord’s Supper.
The Supper of the Lord is not only a sign of the love that Christians ought to have among themselves one to another, but rather it is a Sacrament of our Redemption by Christ’s death: insomuch that to such as rightly, worthily, and with faith, receive the same, the Bread which we break is a partaking of the Body of Christ; and likewise the Cup of Blessing is a partaking of the Blood of Christ.

Transubstantiation (or the change of the substance of Bread and Wine) in the Supper of the Lord, cannot be proved by Holy Writ; but is repugnant to the plain words of Scripture, overthroweth the nature of a Sacrament, and hath given occasion to many superstitions.

The Body of Christ is given, taken, and eaten, in the Supper, only after an heavenly and spiritual manner. And the mean whereby the Body of Christ is received and eaten in the Supper, is Faith.

The Sacrament of the Lord’s Supper was not by Christ’s ordinance reserved, carried about, lifted up, or worshipped.

XXIX. Of the Wicked, which eat not the Body of Christ in the use of the Lord’s Supper.
The Wicked, and such as be void of a lively faith, although they do carnally and visibly press with their teeth (as Saint Augustine saith) the Sacrament of the Body and Blood of Christ; yet in no wise are they partakers of Christ: but rather, to their condemnation, do eat and drink the sign or Sacrament of so great a thing.

XXX. Of both Kinds.
The Cup of the Lord is not to be denied to the Lay-people: for both the parts of the Lord’s Sacrament, by Christ’s ordinance and commandment, ought to be ministered to all Christian men alike.
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Help me to understand this please…in simpler language. I am not good at translation sometimes and defer to those that are. I like to learn!!
 
So, I’m a little confused. It sounds like the Episcopal Church does consider their Eucharist to be the Body and Blood of Christ, but do not believe in transubstantiation per se.

I would like those who really know the Episcopal faith to respond. This is not a trap! I really do want to understand. Is the Eucharist considered the Body and Blood of Christ as implied above, but not literally transformed? Is the understanding more like Christ’s spirit enters the Host, rather than the Host becoming flesh?
 
marimagi said:
So, I’m a little confused. It sounds like the Episcopal Church does consider their Eucharist to be the Body and Blood of Christ, but do not believe in transubstantiation per se.

I would like those who really know the Episcopal faith to respond. This is not a trap! I really do want to understand. Is the Eucharist considered the Body and Blood of Christ as implied above, but not literally transformed? Is the understanding more like Christ’s spirit enters the Host, rather than the Host becoming flesh?
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I’d really like to know, as well.
My impression was that Christ is invoked to enter the Host…
But then, this is how someone left it with me re: the RCC… I know THAT’S not right!
 
EvangelCatholic said:
I can assert without hesitation that Episcoplians believe in the Real Presence. All one need do is attend Mass in an Episcopal parish to realize that they fall to their knees in worship to the Incarnate Word made flesh in the Sacrament.
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I noticed you are Lutheran. Do Lutherans have a similar understanding to the Episcopals?

And thank you for your insight by the way.
 
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