Episcopalians/Anglicans and Mary

[Luna_Lovegood]

Hi, I’m still slowly working my way through the very interesting thread about Protestants and Mary.

And I thought I’d see if there are any Episcopalians/Anglicans here who’d like to talk about Mary. We’re exploring Episcopalianism right now, and one thing that attracts me, from what I’ve read about the Episcopal Church so far, is that there is plenty of room for all different views on Mary.

At least, it seems to me that I wouldn’t be frowned upon for praying the Cathoic Rosary prayers. And for communing with Mary.

What have your experiences been?

 

[chris_molter]

It varies widely, as Episcopal Churches are wont to do. Many of the more conservative churches are strongly evangelical leaning and the parishoners would probably frown on any Marian devotions. On the other end of the spectrum, some of the ‘out-there’ liberal parishes celebrate the “divine feminine” and I’m sure Marian devotion wouldn’t bug them in the least.

Your best bet for Catholic-like acceptance or encouragement of Marian devotion would be an Anglo-Catholic or “high church” parish.

 

[Contarini]

Hi, I’m still slowly working my way through the very interesting thread about Protestants and Mary.

And I thought I’d see if there are any Episcopalians/Anglicans here who’d like to talk about Mary. We’re exploring Episcopalianism right now, and one thing that attracts me, from what I’ve read about the Episcopal Church so far, is that there is plenty of room for all different views on Mary.

At least, it seems to me that I wouldn’t be frowned upon for praying the Cathoic Rosary prayers. And for communing with Mary.

What have your experiences been?

I would certainly agree with that. Only a minority of Anglicans practice such devotions, but the number of people who would have a problem with it would also be a minority, I think. Of course, in the Episcopal Church all sorts of things are tolerated

Edwin

 

[emeraldcoast]

Hi!
We do have a number at our Church that say the RC Rosary. We have many that have left the Roman Catholic Church that continue to enjoy praying the Rosary. There seems to be a growing interest in the Anglican Rosary. I have been known to have two types of Rosary beads in my purse…

kingofpeace.org/prayerbeads.htm
If you have any questions about the Episcopal Church, please feel free to pm me.

God Bless!

 

[emeraldcoast]

It varies widely, as Episcopal Churches are wont to do. Many of the more conservative churches are strongly evangelical leaning and the parishoners would probably frown on any Marian devotions. On the other end of the spectrum, some of the ‘out-there’ liberal parishes celebrate the “divine feminine” and I’m sure Marian devotion wouldn’t bug them in the least.

Your best bet for Catholic-like acceptance or encouragement of Marian devotion would be an Anglo-Catholic or “high church” parish.

I have never attended an Episcopal Church like what Chris has explained here. As a military family, we have been members of many Episcopal Churches in our country.

God Bless!

 

[Rose_Maniple]

I’m an officer for my local ward of the Society of Mary, which promotes devotion to Our Lady in the Anglican Communion. Each Saturday in May we have an installment of the May Devotion, with Sung or Solemn Mass, lunch, and in some cases Rosary & Benediction. On the last Saturday in May we observe the Solemnity of the Visitation with an Outdoor Procession.

 

[GKC]

I’m an Anglican of the traditional type, not an Episcopalian. We sing the Angelus (or, as appropriate, the Regina Coeli) at each Mass. Though not today. We recited it. The substitute organist was not familiar with it.

Our Mary Shrine is OL of Walsingham, as it common among Anglicans. Our parish is moderately Anglo-Catholic. Those who are not comfortable with Marian devotions usually attend the Morning Prayer/Communion service, earlier in the day.

GKC

*Anglicanus-Catholicus *

 

[Luna_Lovegood]

Thank you for all this great (name removed by moderator)ut!

I’ve been doing more research on Anglo-Catholicism. I’ve been eager to visit a particular Episcopal Church that is near us – but for the last 2 weekends we’ve been dealing with sickness in our home so we didn’t make it out.

The church I’m specially interested in has a very informative website. While they don’t seem to officially call themselves Anglo-Catholic, they do emphasize that they are inclusive.

They also have a relationship with a Roman Catholic parish that is near them, wherein they celebrate some services with them, and also an official from each parish visits the other parish at least once a month. Their reasoning is that the people highest up in both hierarchies (Roman Catholic and Anglican) are working together towards a reunification – so they feel God wants them to work together.

So this Episcopalian parish seems like it would be open to Marian devotion – and it sounds like there may even be some Anglo-Catholics there. I hope we’ll all be well enough to visit by next Sunday!

I also like that they do Godly Play with the children – which seems like a wonderful curriculum.

 

[GKC]

Thank you for all this great (name removed by moderator)ut!

I’ve been doing more research on Anglo-Catholicism. I’ve been eager to visit a particular Episcopal Church that is near us – but for the last 2 weekends we’ve been dealing with sickness in our home so we didn’t make it out.

The church I’m specially interested in has a very informative website. While they don’t seem to officially call themselves Anglo-Catholic, they do emphasize that they are inclusive.

They also have a relationship with a Roman Catholic parish that is near them, wherein they celebrate some services with them, and also an official from each parish visits the other parish at least once a month. Their reasoning is that the people highest up in both hierarchies (Roman Catholic and Anglican) are working together towards a reunification – so they feel God wants them to work together.

So this Episcopalian parish seems like it would be open to Marian devotion – and it sounds like there may even be some Anglo-Catholics there. I hope we’ll all be well enough to visit by next Sunday!

I also like that they do Godly Play with the children – which seems like a wonderful curriculum.

When an Episcopal church or parish emphasizes that they are inclusive, it usually refers to inclusivity on matters of sexual orientation.

GKC

 

[Luna_Lovegood]

When an Episcopal church or parish emphasizes that they are inclusive, it usually refers to inclusivity on matters of sexual orientation.

GKC

Yes, I figured so. But I’m thinking “inclusive” may also indicate greater open-mindedness regarding a variety of different issues.

Plus of course the fact that they have this connection with the nearby Roman Catholic parish, leads me to think they would probably be inclusive of Anglo-Catholic parishioners, such as myself, who pray the Catholic Rosary.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Yes, I figured so. But I’m thinking “inclusive” may also indicate greater open-mindedness regarding a variety of different issues.

Plus of course the fact that they have this connection with the nearby Roman Catholic parish, leads me to think they would probably be inclusive of Anglo-Catholic parishioners, such as myself, who pray the Catholic Rosary.

I’d seriously encourage you to explore other Anglican groups, preferably continuing Anglicans, ACNA, etc. The Episcopal Church is neo-paganism dressed up in clerical garb. It has the most sinful, pagan, and frightening theology. You really need to go do your homework before you jump on board the Titanic. For example, the bishop of Los Angeles just had a big service worshipping with Hindus allowing Hindus to take the Eucharist and then he gave a big sermon apologizing to them for all the years that the Episcopal Church preached the Gospel to them!!? Yeah, shame on those folks who tried to share Christ with Hindus! This is a religion that teaches Christ is “a” way to God, not “the” way to God. It allows women’s ordination going against tradition, good ecclesiology, and common sense in the ordinary understanding of the priesthood. They have no real theology, no sense of good and evil, and there is NOTHING they prohibit or preach against. About the only thing they’d agree is sinful would be a guy like Jeffrey Dalmer. They have caused huge splintering in North America and the Anglican Communion is in a serious state of confusion as to how to deal with an entire province of heretics.

Think long and hard, do your homework, read, read, read, and pray before joining this motley crew…

 

[GKC]

Yes, I figured so. But I’m thinking “inclusive” may also indicate greater open-mindedness regarding a variety of different issues.

Plus of course the fact that they have this connection with the nearby Roman Catholic parish, leads me to think they would probably be inclusive of Anglo-Catholic parishioners, such as myself, who pray the Catholic Rosary.

In a sense, yes. In the type of parish I am discussing, you will find a great deal of open-mindedness. Tons of it. Of course, as Chesterton pointed out, this may not be a necessarily good thing, in the absolute.

In addition, you are likely to find a few subjects on which open-mindedness is not evident. It is unlikely that these subjects will disturb you, I would guess.

GOC

posterus traditus Anglicanus, Anglicanus-Catholicus

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

I’m an Anglican of the traditional type, not an Episcopalian. We sing the Angelus (or, as appropriate, the Regina Coeli) at each Mass. Though not today. We recited it. The substitute organist was not familiar with it.

Our Mary Shrine is OL of Walsingham, as it common among Anglicans. Our parish is moderately Anglo-Catholic. Those who are not comfortable with Marian devotions usually attend the Morning Prayer/Communion service, earlier in the day.

GKC

*Anglicanus-Catholicus *

What’s happened to all the Protestants in Anglicanism ? There have been some interesting comments on the “Agreed Statement” about Mary.​

 

[GKC]

What’s happened to all the Protestants in Anglicanism ? There have been some interesting comments on the “Agreed Statement” about Mary.​

Oh, the protestants are out there; I’m by no means an examplar of even an orthodox Anglican. If you require one of them, for some purpose, around my parish your best bet is hang out in 0900 Morning Prayer, for the best chance of bagging one. Bait your trap with the Articles.

If you catch one, I’m not sure what you should feed them.

GKC

 

[Contarini]

I’d seriously encourage you to explore other Anglican groups, preferably continuing Anglicans, ACNA, etc. The Episcopal Church is neo-paganism dressed up in clerical garb.

There was a neo-pagan priest some years ago. He was defrocked by a liberal bishop. So your claim is simply false.

This is a religion that teaches Christ is “a” way to God, not “the” way to God.

False. You cannot point to a single official teaching of the Episcopal Church saying this. The Presiding Bishop made an unfortunate remark which was interpreted in that sense.

It allows women’s ordination going against tradition, good ecclesiology, and common sense

What does common sense have to do with it?

It is against tradition. I don’t think it’s against good ecclesiology, and it may be mandated by orthodox Christology (once the traditional belief that women are imperfect males is rejected, as it clearly is by just about all Christians today).

Edwin

 

[Luna_Lovegood]

I really appreciate everyone being so forthright. Some of you might class me as neo-pagan – even though I definitely believe Jesus is the way to God. I simply believe that Jesus’ crucifixion has already accomplished the salvation of the whole world – and I believe everyone will ultimately be reconciled to God through Christ.

I know that not all Episcopalians would agree with me on this – but it seems that some do. Madeleine L’Engle was an Episcopalian Universalist.

I have actually learned and grown a lot through reading Tao Te Ching – and am wondering if the LA bishop was maybe apologizing for the “way” the church had tried to evangelize the Buddhists, and wasn’t apologizing for sharing Christ per se.

When we are sharing of ourselves while also taking an interest in our brothers and sisters in humanity, and learning from their beliefs, there is so much more openness and possibility for starting a real, continuing dialog. Whereas just approaching those who are different with the assumption that we have what they need, and there’s really nothing of value that we can learn from them – this attitude just closes off discussion in the long run.

I like what I’ve been learning of the Episcopal Church so far – and yes I have been reading reading reading – because they’ve retained the beautiful old traditions while allowing room for freethought and questioning. I definitely want to be part of a church that celebrates Christ and the Christian traditions, which is why I’m not so interested in a Unitarian Universalist Church.

 

[Luna_Lovegood]

What’s happened to all the Protestants in Anglicanism ? There have been some interesting comments on the “Agreed Statement” about Mary.​

Where can I find the “Agreed Statement” about Mary?

 

[Contarini]

I really appreciate everyone being so forthright. Some of you might class me as neo-pagan.

I don’t know how GurneyHalleck is defining “neo-pagan.” I’m not 100% sure he knows.
But I define it in its usual sense as someone who practices a form of modern spirituality allegedly derived from ancient polytheism. The husband and wife (both priests) to whom I referred wrote a liturgy that was on a website officially sponsored by the Episcopal Church. This liturgy addressed God in female terms and explicitly identified this female God with the “Queen of Heaven” whose worship is denounced in Ezekiel. The husband was also a participant on a neopagan email list. As I said, both of them were disciplined by their bishop (Bishop Bennison of Philadelphia, no conservative). And the liturgy was taken off the website. (Admittedly, this probably wouldn’t have happened if a conservative Episcopalian writing for Christianity Today had not “blown the whistle.”)

Clearly there are Episcopalians who incorporate neopagan elements into their Christianity. However, this is not the official practice of the Episcopal Church, and the fact is that it happens in Catholicism as well. Again: understand that by “neopagan” I mean specifically the worship of other gods (or God under a name clearly at variance with Christian revelation) and other practices clearly condemned by Scripture and Christian tradition. Many conservative Christians regard any use of nontraditional language for God, or any use of practices derived from Eastern Religions, Native American traditions, etc., as neopagan. That may be what Gurney is talking about.

Edwin

 

[GKC]

That husband/wife combo were switch-hitter Druids, IIRC.

GKC

I don’t know how GurneyHalleck is defining “neo-pagan.” I’m not 100% sure he knows.
But I define it in its usual sense as someone who practices a form of modern spirituality allegedly derived from ancient polytheism. The husband and wife (both priests) to whom I referred wrote a liturgy that was on a website officially sponsored by the Episcopal Church. This liturgy addressed God in female terms and explicitly identified this female God with the “Queen of Heaven” whose worship is denounced in Ezekiel. The husband was also a participant on a neopagan email list. As I said, both of them were disciplined by their bishop (Bishop Bennison of Philadelphia, no conservative). And the liturgy was taken off the website. (Admittedly, this probably wouldn’t have happened if a conservative Episcopalian writing for Christianity Today had not “blown the whistle.”)

Clearly there are Episcopalians who incorporate neopagan elements into their Christianity. However, this is not the official practice of the Episcopal Church, and the fact is that it happens in Catholicism as well. Again: understand that by “neopagan” I mean specifically the worship of other gods (or God under a name clearly at variance with Christian revelation) and other practices clearly condemned by Scripture and Christian tradition. Many conservative Christians regard any use of nontraditional language for God, or any use of practices derived from Eastern Religions, Native American traditions, etc., as neopagan. That may be what Gurney is talking about.

Edwin

 

[GKC]

Sounds to me like you are on track, for the sort of church you want.

Me, I quit reading the late L’Engle after A Wrinkle in Time, A Wind in the Door, and A Swiftly Tilting Planet .

GKC

I really appreciate everyone being so forthright. Some of you might class me as neo-pagan – even though I definitely believe Jesus is the way to God. I simply believe that Jesus’ crucifixion has already accomplished the salvation of the whole world – and I believe everyone will ultimately be reconciled to God through Christ.

I know that not all Episcopalians would agree with me on this – but it seems that some do. Madeleine L’Engle was an Episcopalian Universalist.

I have actually learned and grown a lot through reading Tao Te Ching – and am wondering if the LA bishop was maybe apologizing for the “way” the church had tried to evangelize the Buddhists, and wasn’t apologizing for sharing Christ per se.

When we are sharing of ourselves while also taking an interest in our brothers and sisters in humanity, and learning from their beliefs, there is so much more openness and possibility for starting a real, continuing dialog. Whereas just approaching those who are different with the assumption that we have what they need, and there’s really nothing of value that we can learn from them – this attitude just closes off discussion in the long run.

I like what I’ve been learning of the Episcopal Church so far – and yes I have been reading reading reading – because they’ve retained the beautiful old traditions while allowing room for freethought and questioning. I definitely want to be part of a church that celebrates Christ and the Christian traditions, which is why I’m not so interested in a Unitarian Universalist Church.