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Mystophilus
Guest
Freedom is freedom: it is neither good nor evil, being merely the opportunity for either of those.
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Freedom is freedom: it is neither good nor evil, being merely the opportunity for either of those.
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Picky_Picky
Guest
Iād be interested to know: would you categorise the absence of freedom the same way?
Freedom is freedom: it is neither good nor evil, being merely the opportunity for either of those.
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manualman
Guest
Is there any difference, then, between the words āfreedomā and ālicense?ā Just curious as to where and if you see a line.
Freedom is freedom: it is neither good nor evil, being merely the opportunity for either of those.
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7_Sorrows
Guest
Sadly the episcopal anglican churches are moving further away from the RCC. There are still some who want to hold onto traditional theology. The Orthodox Church, the Roman Catholic Church and the Anglican church were at one time 3 great churches. I think there might still be a chance of the Orthodox and RCC reuniting under the Pope, but the Angkican church prefers to vote on their own rules and I feel have lost the chance of reuniting with the Pope.
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Peter_J
Guest
Iām curious what kind of thing you might expect the Orthodox to say to that. āOh thank you, I just canāt believe you think we are good enough to be proselytizedā seem unlikely. (Just as an example.)
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Indifferently
Guest
I see far more prospect in liberal Protestantism being united as a sort of informal second-class system of churches under the Pope than any union with the East.
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7_Sorrows
Guest
You never know what the future holds.
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7_Sorrows
Guest
You mean stripping themselves of names like presbyterian, methodist, united church of christ, etc. and joining under another name?
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Mystophilus
Guest
Not a significant difference in this context, no: āLiberty of action conceded or acknowledgedā (OED, ālicenceā) is practically the same as āThe state of being able to act without hindrance or restraint; liberty of actionā (OED, āfreedomā), except in the implication that the former implies the existence of some authority to license that freedom.
I should add, however, that we do have different standards for laity and clergy, since the latter are licensed by bishops and those licences can be suspended.
(Sorry for taking ages to get to this. My internet connection has been playing up.)
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andrewstx
Guest
For a good view on Anamnesis and the Anglican view on the Mass as sacrifice I would recommend āTHE SHAPE OF THE LITURGYā by Dom Gregory Dix.
Iām sure that GKC has this book, I lost mine. If you are extra nice to him he might loan you his copy.
Iām sure that GKC has this book, I lost mine. If you are extra nice to him he might loan you his copy.
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GKC
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Sy_Noe
Guest
I wouldnāt rely on what is said here about the Episcopal Church. There are much better and more accurate sources of information than a Catholic forum filled with conservatives to the degree this one is. I understand it can be human nature for people to like to surround themselves with like minded people so even the Anglicans here Iāve found by in large to be more conservative and can seem to have an axe to grind about TEC . They either donāt like female clergy or donāt like something about the presiding bishop or donāt like the option for SS couples to have their unions blessed in dioceses where the bishop and priests have made this an option. Anyway thereās an official Episcopal website as well as many Episcopal priests who would be more than welcome to correspond with a person seeking information and answer any questions. I know because I myself have learned a lot about TEC that way and have come to appreciate it more.
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Sy_Noe
Guest
Yes and such freedom is like a magnet to me and is something that attracts me to TEC and other mainline denominations and is something I love about them. But then Iām not necessarily the personality type who has a need to be told by other humans what I must believe or to be forced to believe a certain way on matters of faith.
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celestialhost
Guest
People like our friend Indifferently who argue that true Anglicanism is Reformed and Calvinist can be a bit annoying, but they have a point. They have enough historical arguments to raise at least some difficult questions for Anglo-Catholics. His version of Anglicanism was dominant at an early and fundamental stage in the Church of Englandās development. That should raise at least doubts as to whether Anglicanism is really Catholic in the way Roman Catholics would understand the term.
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GKC
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Sy_Noe
Guest
Yes and then if one so chooses, is free to remain or to swim wherever it is one feels called to be. One of the Episcopal priests told me we do not have to agree on every issue in order to worship Jesus together. To come as you are and be who you are. That it is only through the love and grace of God that any of us are where we are. This freedom to be who we are is something I see as a difference in Episcopalians/Anglicans vs Catholics. But Anglicans too feel called to swim the Tiber. They feel they can better be who they are in the RCC. And thatās what I love about freedom and the free will our God has given us.
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GKC
Guest
I see a difference in Anglicans, and other Anglicans. But, then, I have been looking for a long time.
GKC
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GKC
Guest
It is, beyond a certain point, relating to validity of sacraments, and similar essentials.
But diversity of beliefs in not the only issue.
There are many modes of motleydom.
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commenter
Guest
Freedom for its own sake is useless. Whatās crucial isnāt just freedom from, but more opportunities. If you choose to learn, you give up freedom to be ignorant. When I chose to marry one particular woman, I gave up certain other activities. But by exercising my freedom to make one sacramental commitment, I or we are tied in, united in with the other 6 sacraments as well. We are free to bond with the Magisterium of the Church, a reliable guide we both follow. We have a bond with many likeminded Christian families. Other kinds of āfamiliesā define marriage in 100 different, contradictory, often conflicting ways. Their freedom offers fewer opportunities than Catholicism, because thereās no unity. In the name of āfreedomā they are losing the opportunity to make a lifetime commitment. Practicing Catholics still have that opportunity because of unity of belief, unity of social and supernatural supports Catholicism offers.
Life is like a playground surrounded by a dangerous cliff. Without a fence people are nervous about running too fast or playing anywhere near the edge. With the fence, you can run as fast as you want, play anywhere you want. The Church maintains the fence, and the Church provides many opportunities inside - but only those who respect the fence benefit from them, and this has always benefited many non-Catholics. Some want to rip the fence to provide more āfreedomā, this is what the Media and Government want to do. They not only want to rip the fence for themselves, they want to stop the ability of the Catholic Church to maintain the fence for anyone, or take any action at all. Thatās why today 95% of all attacks on Christianity are attacks on the authority of the Catholic Church, as such.
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