Episcopalians Compared to Catholics?

[GKC]

Me too. St. Thomas Fifth Avenue. St. Anthony of Padua, Hackensack, St. Paul’s K Street in DC. Almost anything in the Diocese of Fort Worth . . . And those are IN the Episcopal Church.

God help them.

GKC

 

[BrandenRush]

My boyfriend is Episcopalian and I’m Catholic. We both thought that the churches were outwardly similar, but I know there are some real differences (aside from different heads of power). My boyfriend says the Episcopal church is like a lighter version of Catholicism, but I think it seems a lot more liberal, too.

I read that Episcopalians can be gay (and take orders) and have female priests. They don’t revere the Virgin Mary, either. How is the Episcopal mass different from the Catholic mass?

I guess I’m asking a question that requires a long answer…

There is alot going on in the Episcopal church right now, some good some bad. The Anglican Communion of which the Episcopal church belongs to maintains the 7 sacrements, the apostolic succession necessary for valid sacrements and all of the proper Tradition from the early church. The difference is that Anglicans do not revere the pope as the infallible head of the church and they do not believe in dogma unproveable by Scripture such as the Assumption and the perpetual virginity of Mary. They believe that Mary is foremost of all the saints but do not elevate her to supernatural status. Frankly, Anglicans are all of the substance and none of the rubbish for lack of a better term.

 

[lak611]

Hi,
I dont agree with the CC but I hope you get him out of the episcopal church because they are going downhill fast

My mom is still episcopalian and I will be going to her church(female minister)in aug. when I go to visit. I told my brother I need to go visit her church so as to convince her to leave. Although she knows nothing else and her father was a minister so she will probably stay.

It is sad that they allow female ministers, because the Bible is very clear on that. Jesus picked twelve men as His apostles. He did not choose any women.

 

[BrandenRush]

It is sad that they allow female ministers, because the Bible is very clear on that. Jesus picked twelve men as His apostles. He did not choose any women.

What does that prove? Paul preached that no longer are there Jews and Gentiles nor men or women nor circumcised or uncircumcised.

 

[KarenNC]

He doesn’t seem very Catholic, but I’m basing this on the fact that he never had to learn the Hail Mary, doesn’t make the sign of the cross, doesn’t genuflect, etc.

As an Episcopalian in NC in the mid to late 80s and early 90s, we genuflected and made the sign of the cross, both in a “middle church” and “high church” parish.

 

[mercygate]

There is alot going on in the Episcopal church right now, some good some bad. The Anglican Communion of which the Episcopal church belongs to maintains the 7 sacrements, the apostolic succession necessary for valid sacrements and all of the proper Tradition from the early church. The difference is that Anglicans do not revere the pope as the infallible head of the church and they do not believe in dogma unproveable by Scripture such as the Assumption and the perpetual virginity of Mary. They believe that Mary is foremost of all the saints but do not elevate her to supernatural status. Frankly, Anglicans are all of the substance and none of the rubbish for lack of a better term.

Granted that any Anglican can believe anything he wants without fear of challenge, as an Anglican I used to defend energetically all of what you here call “rubbish.” A good Anglican should, indeed, find a “better term,” such as “the Marian dogmas.” To suggest that anybody elevates Mary to supernatural status reveals a crass misunderstanding of Catholic and Orthodox teaching concerning Our Lady.

 

[BrandenRush]

Granted that any Anglican can believe anything he wants without fear of challenge, as an Anglican I used to defend energetically all of what you here call “rubbish.” A good Anglican should, indeed, find a “better term,” such as “the Marian dogmas.” To suggest that anybody elevates Mary to supernatural status reveals a crass misunderstanding of Catholic and Orthodox teaching concerning Our Lady.

I have heard Catholics say over and over that they do not elevate Mary beyond saint status and that they do not worship her but i do not agree. I was once Catholic and shamefully scolded by a nun because I refused to crown a statue of Mary with flowers. I am proud for having the strength and conviction to refuse doing this as I am sure Mary is proud that I refused as well. She knows and probably is really embarrased by all that is done in her realm that should be offered up to our Lord.

 

[mercygate]

I have heard Catholics say over and over that they do not elevate Mary beyond saint status and that they do not worship her but i do not agree. I was once Catholic and shamefully scolded by a nun because I refused to crown a statue of Mary with flowers. I am proud for having the strength and conviction to refuse doing this as I am sure Mary is proud that I refused as well. She knows and probably is really embarrased by all that is done in her realm that should be offered up to our Lord.

My Episcopal parish celebrated the May crowning with the children every year in our rose garden. The Marian shrine in the Church had a statue of which the right hand, pointing to the infant in her left arm, was sculptured in such a way that it perfectly held a bouquet of fresh flowers, which we placed in her hand on the Marian Feasts. The Feast of the Assumption was celebrated almost with equal pomp with the feast of our Patron Saint.

Don’t derail this thread. Take up the topic in its own place. You will find that statements such as, “I do not agree” carry very little weight with contributors to these forums, who are prepared to defend Catholic teaching very well from both Scripture and what you appropriate as “proper Tradition.”

 

[BrandenRush]

My Episcopal parish celebrated the May crowning with the children every year in our rose garden. The Marian shrine in the Church had a statue of which the right hand, pointing to the infant in her left arm, was sculptured in such a way that it perfectly held a bouquet of fresh flowers, which we placed in her hand on the Marian Feasts. The Feast of the Assumption was celebrated almost with equal pomp with the feast of our Patron Saint.

Don’t derail this thread. Take up the topic in its own place. You will find that statements such as, “I do not agree” carry very little weight with contributors to these forums, who are prepared to defend Catholic teaching very well from both Scripture and what you appropriate as “proper Tradition.”

The feast of the Assumption? You clearly have no clue of what the Episcopal church teaches. I think that you might be trying to outsmart yourself here.

 

[Tonks40]

The feast of the Assumption? You clearly have no clue of what the Episcopal church teaches. I think that you might be trying to outsmart yourself here.

Ah, the liberal branch of Anglicanism. Clearly, you do not know what the Anglican Church (who answers to the Bishop of Canterbury) teaches!

 

[mercygate]

The feast of the Assumption? You clearly have no clue of what the Episcopal church teaches. I think that you might be trying to outsmart yourself here.

Yes, Branden: the Feast of the Assumption. As for having no clue what the Episcopal Church teaches, I have the M.Div. from the General Theological Seminary in New York – the mother seminary of the Episcopal Church in the United States. IOW: I was trained as an Episcopal Priest.

 

[BrandenRush]

Yes, Branden: the Feast of the Assumption. As for having no clue what the Episcopal Church teaches, I have the M.Div. from the General Theological Seminary in New York – the mother seminary of the Episcopal Church in the United States. IOW: I was trained as an Episcopal Priest.

I don’t believe you.

 

[BrandenRush]

Yes, Branden: the Feast of the Assumption. As for having no clue what the Episcopal Church teaches, I have the M.Div. from the General Theological Seminary in New York – the mother seminary of the Episcopal Church in the United States. IOW: I was trained as an Episcopal Priest.

Go to St. George’s Anglican church Helmetta, N.J. website and look at what Fr. Guerrard says about the Assumption in his Anglican vs. Catholic column.

 

[mercygate]

I don’t believe you.

Well, this is an Internet forum, so it is possible to represent onself fraudulently. But with more than 8,000 posts, I believe my credibility has been fairly well established here.

As for the Feast of the Assumption: Many Episcopal Churches celebrate this important Feast notwithstanding Fr. Gurrard’s opinion. After all, unity of doctrine is not exactly the strong point of Anglican theology, is it? The bishop of my diocese when I was an Episcopalian did not believe in the Resurrection.

 

[BrandenRush]

Well, this is an Internet forum, so it is possible to represent onself fraudulently. But with more than 8,000 posts, I believe my credibility has been fairly well established here.

As for the Feast of the Assumption: Many Episcopal Churches celebrate this important Feast notwithstanding Fr. Gurrard’s opinion. After all, unity of doctrine is not exactly the strong point of Anglican theology, is it? The bishop of my diocese when I was an Episcopalian did not believe in the Resurrection.

I cannot believe that you are trying to pass yourself off as credible. You clearly have been caught in a lie and unsurprisingly will not admit it. Instead you try to trash a fine upstanding Episcopal priest whom I happen to know personally. Unity in doctrine IS the strongpoint of the Anglican Communion and Fr. Guerrard knows it intimately. Next time you try to fabricate scenarios and discredit good honest Christian clergy to attempt to justify your lies, you had better attempt it with someone who doesn’t happen to be a sharp Episcopalian who knows church doctrine and also knows what it is not!

 

[mercygate]

I cannot believe that you are trying to pass yourself off as credible. You clearly have been caught in a lie and unsurprisingly will not admit it. Instead you try to trash a fine upstanding Episcopal priest whom I happen to know personally. Unity in doctrine IS the strongpoint of the Anglican Communion and Fr. Guerrard knows it intimately. **Next time you try to fabricate scenarios and discredit good honest Christian clergy to attempt to justify your lies, **you had better attempt it with someone who doesn’t happen to be a sharp Episcopalian who knows church doctrine and also knows what it is not!

I did NOT “trash” Fr. Guerrard. And I have no doubt that he is a fine, knowledgeable Priest. The bolded sentence is against forum rules because it is not only false, it is a personal attack. My former bishop (now retired) did NOT believe in the Resurrection – if that is what you are referring to as “discrediting” clergy.

 

[BrandenRush]

I did NOT “trash” Fr. Guerrard. And I have no doubt that he is a fine, knowledgeable Priest. The bolded sentence is against forum rules because it is not only false, it is a personal attack. My former bishop (now retired) did NOT believe in the Resurrection – if that is what you are referring to as “discrediting” clergy.

This is so typical of what always happens in here when a catholic paints him/herself into a corner. I know Catholics who say that the resurrection was really something piece-mealed together to point to how our faith should work. Now how about that for unity? And excuse me, you did trash him by calling church doctrine his opinion. This is a direct insult on the man’s intelligence and it speaks volumes to your arrogance and disrespect for other faiths

 

[Harpazo]

This is so typical of what always happens in here when a catholic paints him/herself into a corner. I know Catholics who say that the resurrection was really something piece-mealed together to point to how our faith should work. Now how about that for unity? And excuse me, you did trash him by calling church doctrine his opinion. This is a direct insult on the man’s intelligence and it speaks volumes to your arrogance and disrespect for other faiths

If I might interject here, how do we know you’re an ex-Catholic? How do we know you’re Anglican? How do we know you’re name is even Branden? It could be Leslie for all we know.

Back on topic.

Anyways, I’ve always been baffled at the fact that Episcopalians try so hard to paint themselves as Catholic (some even try to say that we’re almost identical), yet are Catholic only of their opinion.

In Pax Christi
Andrew

 

[mercygate]

This is so typical of what always happens in here when a catholic paints him/herself into a corner. I know Catholics who say that the resurrection was really something piece-mealed together to point to how our faith should work. Now how about that for unity? And excuse me, you did trash him by calling church doctrine his opinion. This is a direct insult on the man’s intelligence and it speaks volumes to your arrogance and disrespect for other faiths

I am not going to get into a spat with you Branden. I have many friends among the Clergy of the Episcopal Church to this very day. The Bishop of Fort Worth was my classmate and next-door neighbor in Chelsea Square (seminary). My daughter’s godfather, and my best friend – our former Rector – is now a retired Bishop.

Everything I learned about Jesus Christ and about the sacraments, I learned as an Anglican. To say that I disrespect other faiths is a grotesque caricature. The faith I learned as an Episcopalian IS the Catholic faith. The river of tears that I and many others shed as the Episcopal Church departed further and further from her true self were the bitterest of my life. I loved the Episcopal Church. She is my mother. But for the love of Jesus Christ, as many others have done before me, had to come to Rome in order to follow my Lord with full integrity.

 

[thommie]

Missalison, for what it’s worth, you might consider checking out the 39 articles of the Episcopal faith to see where they differ from your beliefs as a Catholic. Although the Episcopal church may have become so latitudnal that it does not require their communicants to believe those articles, it might give you some clues as to doctrinal differences (or at least POTENTIAL differences).

I THINK even the newer Book of Common Prayer has the 39 articles printed in it. They are also online here:

anglicansonline.org/basics/thirty-nine_articles.html