Episcopalians keep a-slidin'

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Ah, very good.

To be frank, I have no real problem with defaulting to “they” when referring to a person that would like to be referred to as such. It’s been part of the language awhile and it’s not a terrible accommodation as it’s already part of my vocabulary.

The problem for me is that I shouldn’t have to be expected to diligently seek what gender you wish to identify as upon every single new social interaction. And if I call them a he/she and they say “no, I’m a ‘zhyr’”, then I should still be free to say “I think you’re a confused person” and still persist in the binary because I shouldn’t be forced to conform to THEIR relatively novel gender norms.

“Freedom” means they can be a “zhyr” if they want to be. And “freedom” also means that I can say “you’re a moron” in reply.
 
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In recent years I did some work with an educational tech company which led to a lot of speaking on the phone to clients, I got into the habit of using “they” because it was just simpler when I wasn’t sure of the gender of the client. I had a few run ins early on with names that I thought were only for one gender but apparently were for either and I just hadn’t known before then. It was a good habit to get into and avoided a lot of awkwardness.

I know a couple of folks who prefer to be called they/them, and haven’t actually met any who prefer the more unusual pronouns.

But just in general I like the neutral singular ‘they’; it saves me time when I don’t know the gender of the person I’m referring to.
 
Alex337 said:
In recent years I did some work with an educational tech company which led to a lot of speaking on the phone to clients, I got into the habit of using “they” because it was just simpler when I wasn’t sure of the gender of the client. I had a few run ins early on with names that I thought were only for one gender but apparently were for either and I just hadn’t known before then. It was a good habit to get into and avoided a lot of awkwardness.

I know a couple of folks who prefer to be called they/them, and haven’t actually met any who prefer the more unusual pronouns.

But just in general I like the neutral singular ‘they’; it saves me time when I don’t know the gender of the person I’m referring to.
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I understand that completely. Also when on the phone and somewhat unsure of the person on the other line, I’ll try to avoid gendered language as well.
 
Definitely! I’ve spoken to a couple of very lightly spoken gentlemen and a rather gruff lady where things could have been quite awkward on the phone.
 
Well, to be honest I guess I was thinking of the daily office, which is pretty much straight '28. www.covert.org was recommended to me by the Vicar in Houston, until such time as the OCSP’s daily prayer book is approved.
I haven’t been able to attend an Ordinariate Mass since joining, as the closest one is nearly 400 miles away! Hopefully…this fall.
 
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I encountered some very low church folks there as well, shrug.
It’s a source of tension, no doubt. It was for me.
 
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More to the point–how do you feel about replacing every reference to God (and ultimately, presumably, to Jesus) where “He” is used, with “They?” (Or “they,” if capitalization is also found to be offensive at some point)
 
At least one of the major Continuing jurisdictions was a little low (APA, I think), but on the whole, I’ve found the continuum pretty high/AC. Of course, everything’s motley, to some degree.
 
Yes, the new Ordinariate Daily Office is supposedly in the final stages of Vatican approval. Some OCSP members are learning about the Vatican’s pacing with such processes. I do hope it retains the 1928 language, bit they didn’t ask me. 😁

I use this site a lot–it has an OCSP setting.
http://www.stbedeproductions.com/breviary/
 
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“motley…” I see what you did there!
Yes, I encountered a couple of very Calvinist pastors in ACA; one is APA now. I was a little surprised about their new agreement with the ACC. I don’t know much at all about the DHC.
 
anon10271182 said:
I haven’t been able to attend an Ordinariate Mass since joining, as the closest one is nearly 400 miles away! Hopefully…this fall.
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Wow, you really are in the boonies!
anon10271182 said:
More to the point–how do you feel about replacing every reference to God (and ultimately, presumably, to Jesus) where “He” is used, with “They?” (Or “they,” if capitalization is also found to be offensive at some point)
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Honestly…would Jesus have chosen to come as a man if this was not important? It is such a dissolution of God’s creation of mankind…
GKMotley said:
I didn’t know that, about the Office. Learning stuff is good.
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I learn something new here pretty much every day!
anon10271182 said:
the Vatican’s pacing with such processes
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When I was young, I chafed against the ponderous slowness of the CC. I now realize that it is better to take the time, to make sure any changes are not influenced by modernism. There was a time I thought I would never say such a thing!
 
anon10271182 said:
More to the point–how do you feel about replacing every reference to God (and ultimately, presumably, to Jesus) where “He” is used, with “They?” (Or “they,” if capitalization is also found to be offensive at some point)
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Oh, that’s easy. I don’t support it.

The dominion of those folks extend only to how they wish others to refer to them. Others, including God, are outside that dominion.
 
Good to hear. There are some, even in the Roman Catholic Church, who argue for Catholic prayer and Liturgy to be gender neutral. They don’t seem to have a lot of traction…yet…
 
Yes, being a returning Catholic as opposed to a new convert helps me to readily understand the seemingly glacial pace, at times, of the Magisterium.
 
I’ve grown rather fond of words like “holpen” and “quickeneth.” Though they’re probably in the Douay-Rheims too, and so show up somewhere in the 1962 Missal. I’ll have to watch for them in the Tridentine Mass!
 
The liturgical questions are none of my business but I must question the dismissal of singular “they” as “ungrammatical”. It has been used in English for six or seven hundred years, by the most distinguished of writers, and I suspect many if not most of us use it regularly and unknowingly.

Pronouns have an interesting history. We don’t object to singular “you” despite its plural origin, and we don’t get huffy that singular “you” (like singular “they”) takes the plural form of the verb.
 
All they need to gain “traction” is for orthodox Catholics or any denomination to be inattentive for awhile. Watch for the details. I recall a few years ago when they announced the church would be closed for “renovation;
Repainting, update the utilities, cleaning, and etc”. Trust me, the real agenda was in that “etc.”
 
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