Epistle of James

[jimmy]

hermit:

Originally Posted by jimmy

You said how bad the teachings of Paul were. Luke was one of the disciples of Pual. If you reject the teachings of Paul, then you also reject Luke who also wrote The Acts of the Apostles.

Now that’s a stretch if I ever saw one. What does the Acts of the Apostles have to do with the letters of Paul. One is a history of the early church the other is one mans opinion of christianity.

My point was that Paul was the teacher of Luke. And if you reject the teachings of Paul then you also reject those of Luke. Luke also wrote the Acts of the Apostles.

 

[hermit]

jimmy:

My point was that Paul was the teacher of Luke. And if you reject the teachings of Paul then you also reject those of Luke. Luke also wrote the Acts of the Apostles.

Luke was a physician and a disciple of Jesus. At least he saw and heard the real Jesus. The fact that luke was a physician accounts fot the many healing miracles mentioned in his Gospel.

 

[twf]

Hermit, could you please respond to the points I made in my post…that crack about the self-imposed authority to excommunicate was quite uncalled for. No one here claimed to have the authority to excommunicate (unless one of us is a bishop).

 

[The_Augustinian]

It is the height of folly to pit St. Paul against Jesus Christ. St. Paul was not crazy; he was probably among the greatest thinkers to have ever lived. He did nothing but "preach Jesus Christ and Him crucified. In fact, this passage from St. Paul is most appropriate:

Now this I say, that every one of you saith: I indeed am of Paul; and I am of Apollo; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? Was Paul then crucified for you? or were you baptized in the name of Paul? I give God thanks, that I baptized none of you but Crispus and Caius…For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel; not in wisdom of speech, lest the cross of Christ should be made void.

St. Luke also wrote the Acts of the Apostles, where St. Paul plays an important figure. Does he portray him as someone who contradicts the gospel of Jesus Christ, or preaches it? Christ Himself appeared to Saul of Tarsus on the road to Damascus, converting him, according to St. Luke. If we condemn St. Paul, St. Luke would have to be with him.

As for the ultra-dispensationalist nuts, they have no grip on reality. If James, the Gospels, and everything other than St. Paul was written to a certain set of Christians, and St. Paul wrote to another set, would not then Christ be divided? And wouldn’t there be a historical demonstration of the so-called “Church of Peter” and “Church of Paul” through the Church Fathers? There is no demonstration, because Christ has founded only one Church, not two. This was one of the factors which led to my conversion to the Catholic Church.

In Christ,

The Augustinian

 

[Apologia100]

hermit:

Is Woodbridge in the Diocese of Arlington or Richmond?

For what it’s worth, Woodbridge is within the Diocese of Arlington under the auspices of Bishop Loverde.

 

[Bill_Rutland]

Hi Pray X 2,

I have never heard any Protestant claim that the epistle of St. James was not inspired. The very fact that they hold to the inspiration and inerrancy of St. James is what gives them problems, especially because taking St. James at face value would put him in conflict with their doctrine of Justification by Faith Alone.

The epistle is dealt with in one of two ways by Protestants:

1. When St. James writes, “You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone” (James 2:24), he is speaking of a justification “before men,” that is, works demonstrate a justification which is already present to those around us.
2. When St. James speaks of justification he is speaking of a “justification” which leads to rewards in heaven, but does not affect one’s salvation.

The main argument in either of these views revolves around the justification of Abraham. In verses 21-23 of the 2 chapter of St. James we read:

*Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by works, and the scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness”; and he was called the friend of God. *

Abraham’s attempted sacrifice of Isaac occurs in Genesis 22: 1-12. Yet, the quote, “Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness" comes from Genesis 15:6. Therefore Protestants maintain that Abraham’s faithfulness in sacrificing Isaac was a “demonstration” of the justification that he received in Genesis 15.

Both arguments are based on the flawed assumption that justification is a one-time event. If we take the Catholic view of justification, i.e… it is an event and a process which requires obedience to God through faith and loving works there is no need to jump through all the hoops that that Protestant do in interpreting St. James.

I am also very concerned with Hermit’s rejection of St. Paul. It is ovious that he does not understand St. Paul or his times.

Hope that helps

PAX CHRISTI

Bill
Christ the King Apologetics Guild

 

[asquared]

I listened to a broadcast sermon on the Letter of James and commentary by Chuck Swindoll (I believe that is the name) on our local Christian radio station a couple of months ago. As this station features speakers like Pastor Greg Lori (sp?), Dr. James Dobson, Vineyard Church etc. I believe its focus is evangelical Christianity. I have never heard direct malicious attacks on the Catholic Church, although I have heard plenty of disagreement with Catholic doctrine, which is to be expected. What astounded me was how throroughly Catholic this preacher’s exposition of James’ message on faith and good works was. I did not hear him say anything contradictory of the Catholic understanding of this letter. He did not even get into justification by faith alone, comparing James to Paul, or other traditional Protestant arguments. In fact, he said things our own bishop preached to catechists last fall. He focused particularly on the passage which translates roughly “If you tell your neighbor, have a nice day, but leave him hungry and naked, you have missed the whole point”.

I also heard Pastor Greg Lori cover Paul’s life and work over several evenings, double-checked what he said, and was astounded at how accurate and illuminating his talk was. Again he did not get into theological or doctrinal debate, but focused on Paul’s own personal spiritual growth.

I truly believe that ecumenism and eventual reunification of the churches with the one true church will begin with the evangelical wing of protestantism, not the mainstream more liberal denominations, or even the Lutherans. Let us continue to pray for that happy day.

 

[Faithful_2_Rome]

“The ravings of Paul”

*Spluh?

Where DO you people come from?

 

[Faithful_2_Rome]

I answered my own question…

I researched some of Hermits posts… NOW it makes sense…

1. Thinks Paul is Raving
2. Claims Matthew & John WERENT the Gospel writers…ALERT…Someone tell ROME they got it WRONG!
3. Thinks the reason Catholics have left the Church is the fault of ORTHODOX Catholics cause we tend to be ARROGANT and OBNOXIOUS in our beliefs… thank goodness for those cafeteria liberals who are squarely quoted and given the due credit by so many protestants, etc for coming back to or converting to the ONE TRUE FAITH. *That wasnt obnoxious was it?
4. Places Catholicism on the same level as other religions…such as Hindus, cause quite simply…who are WE in our arrogance to claim millions of Hindus are wrong and we are right in claiming that Reincarnation isnt true

Where does this all this come from?

A Jesuit College education… which Hermit thinks makes them incapable of being “Anti_Catholic”

Have I missed anything?

Seriously, I hope your heart is open to reconsidering that what you have been taught is erroneous to the Faith, and a great disservice was done to you by those so called “theologians” who were entrusted for PROPERLY shaping your Catholic mindset, and instilling what should have been a Holy and Orthodox education.

God Bless.

 

[mtr01]

Apologia100:

For what it’s worth, Woodbridge is within the Diocese of Arlington under the auspices of Bishop Loverde.

And Arlington is one of the suffragan sees (with Richmond, Wilmington, DE and Wheeling-Charleston, WV) of the Baltimore province.

Oddly enough I had noticed this the other day while I was on the Archdiocese of Baltimore website, so I figured I’d add my :twocents:

 

[copland]

Luther wanted to exclude James because the epistle blew his “justified by faith alone” doctrine out of the water(James 2:24).

 

[Joanna]

hermit:

That is absolute nonsense, the letter of James contains more pure Christ than all the ravings of Paul.

The reformers probably wanted to remove it because the letter of James illuminates just how much Paul corrupted the message of Jesus.

When you get to the Pearly Gates, I hope St.Paul is standing there next to St. Peter. :ehh:
A little humble pie or crow might be on the banquet menu just for you! :yup: