Epistle to Pope Francis

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Truly, Your Excellency, what good can you possibly offer to the Orthodox, you who are the chosen Jesuit “Pope” of the Jews, of the Rabbis, of the masons, of the dictators, of
America, of Ecumenism, of Pan-religion, of the “New Age of Aquarius,” and of the
“New World Order”?
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I honestly didn’t expect them to forget the Spanish Inquisition. :eek:
Bet you didn’t expect that video
 
Estevao said:
None IRL. Heck I don’t even know any Catholics my age, beyond cultural Catholics. 😦
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I know plenty of both. You have to be careful when you search things on the internet. Often times you wind up with things that are not in the mainstream. The internet can skew reality.
 
Seraphim73 said:
I know plenty of both. You have to be careful when you search things on the internet. Often times you wind up with things that are not in the mainstream. The internet can skew reality.
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Ain’t that the truth! It’s taken me down some dark holes…
 
Seraphim73 said:
The letter is authentic. It’s certainly no harsher than other statements I’ve read from Orthodox saints and bishops or many recent statements from Mouth Athos. You have to understand there is a tremendous amount of diversity when it comes to Orthodox beliefs about Catholicism. Beliefs run the gamut from believing that the Pope is the true Patriarch of Rome, that Catholic priests are true priests and that their sacraments are grace filled; to believing that the Pope is just a layman, as are all Catholic clergy and that Catholics sacraments are devoid of any grace. In my personal experience most believers fall somewhere in the middle trending toward the former. For example my priest recommended that a wife convert to Catholicism to be with the family because the husband would not consider Orthodoxy. He did that in good conscience because he believes the Catholic Church is a true Church. Of course you have hard liners such as these bishops who believe the opposite.

As to the question of respect I do believe the Pope is a bishop. I would ask for his blessing and kiss his hand just like any Orthodox bishop. That being said I would never call the female head of the Episcopal Church a “bishop” as an example. It has nothing to do with lack of respect and everything to do with obeying my conscience. So for an Orthodox bishop to refuse to address the Pope as a bishop has nothing to do with disrespect and everything to do with them staying true to their deeply held convictions.
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What you say is very true, IMHO. When I was in my teens I had a good friend named John whose family was Greek Orthodox. We met at summer camp. We did not see one another very often, but when we did, it was like brothers - if you have a brother you know, you can not see him for ten years but when you are together it is as if no time has passed at all. That is the way we were.

Several years later, my older brother met and fell fell deeply in love with John’s sister. They were honestly the most perfect couple I have ever seen. I have never seen or experienced a love like that.

The girl’s father’s hatred of Catholics made him command his daughter to cut off the relationship with my brother. This was 1970, and the girl obeyed her father as Greek immigrant girls did in those days. To this day she has never married. My brother later became a Mormon, and is to this day a very bitter man.

By contrast, several years later when I was at the University of Wisconsin at Madison, one of the guys in my dorm was a Greek Orthodox. He was a terrific guy, like my friend John, and we had deep and beautiful conversations long into the night about all kinds of things, including religion.

It just goes to show that in every Christian tradition, there are people who exemplify what Jesus taught, and those who profess to, but don’t.

I long for the re-unification of the Catholic and Orthodox Churches. I don’t much care what the merger looks like. I will accept whatever God ordains. But in this time and space we desparately need Christians to begin to unite.

I have this vision - that one day soon the Orthodox and Catholics will come into communion, then perhaps the Anglicans, the Lutherans, the United Methodists, the Presbyterians, and then it will be an avalanche of Christian unity - to fight the horrific evils that Satan has unleashed upon the world. Every good scientific invention of modern times - medical, electronic, or physical has been perverted so that it deceives the people and serves evil.

Only through unity will we defeat this evil. The unchurched are unchurched because WE have failed them. WE have divided ourselves through sin and pride on all sides, so that the world no longer believes that Jesus was sent by the Father.
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
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22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
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23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one;** and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me**.
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  • John 17:21-23
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In the present context, I think that this is the most tragic and ironic passage in the bible. If the people of the world do not see or understand that Jesus was sent from Our Father in Heaven to teach us and to save us, it is OUR FAULT. The world does not believe in Jesus because WE who claim to love Him are so busy fighting amongst ourselves that we do not realize that we are losing millions of souls who might have seen the beauty of the gospel, if only WE had the courage and humility to live it and to love one another as he commanded us to do.

What the hell is wrong with us?

Paul
 
twf said:

This has nothing to do with contemporary anti-Catholicism in the West. This is Byzantine prejudice that dates back at least a thousand years to the Great Schism. It also isn’t an attack on the Mother of God, who the Orthodox revere, but rather an unfounded attack on the way in which we Catholics honour her.​

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…and? The Deceiver was working then and he is still hard at it.
 
Seraphim73 said:
I know plenty of both. You have to be careful when you search things on the internet. Often times you wind up with things that are not in the mainstream. The internet can skew reality.
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Either the letter is real or it is not. Are you saying that the letter is a fraud and was not written by Orthodox bishops? Personally, the more I learn about the Orthodox view of Catholicism the more discouraged I become.

So my question is this. How did the internet skew reality in this particular case?
 
Seraphim73 said:
I’m sorry that you are insulted. I’m quite sure that was not the intention. I think in some cases it’s just a matter of us using very different definitions. By saying you are devoid of spirituality they are simply referring to your form of Church governance being centered on the pope and all of the consequences of that. It’s difficult to explain in a forum post honestly. I also suspect that there is quite a bit lost in the translation from Greek to English. As I’m sure you know Greek is a much more nuanced language.
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What they did was rude, disrespectful and replete with lies, i.e., this is not about nuances in the Greek language or mistranslations!
 
PaulDupre1 said:
What you say is very true, IMHO. When I was in my teens I had a good friend named John whose family was Greek Orthodox. We met at summer camp. We did not see one another very often, but when we did, it was like brothers - if you have a brother you know, you can not see him for ten years but when you are together it is as if no time has passed at all. That is the way we were.

Several years later, my older brother met and fell fell deeply in love with John’s sister. They were honestly the most perfect couple I have ever seen. I have never seen or experienced a love like that.

The girl’s father’s hatred of Catholics made him command his daughter to cut off the relationship with my brother. This was 1970, and the girl obeyed her father as Greek immigrant girls did in those days. To this day she has never married. My brother later became a Mormon, and is to this day a very bitter man.
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It’s never too late for them to reconcile, i.e., I can’t help thinking that they can find love again. 😊
 
SteveVH said:
Either the letter is real or it is not. Are you saying that the letter is a fraud and was not written by Orthodox bishops? Personally, the more I learn about the Orthodox view of Catholicism the more discouraged I become.

So my question is this. How did the internet skew reality in this particular case?
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Pardon me but this thread is not that long. You could take a moment to read the rest of the posts before posting yourself. I already said the letter was authentic. And my comment about the internet skewing reality was not made in regards to this letter. I try to be a respectful guest, I would expect you to have the same respect for me.
 
josie_L said:
What they did was rude, disrespectful and replete with lies, i.e., this is not about nuances in the Greek language or mistranslations!
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Don’t patronize me. I’ve been around this forum long enough to know you know better. Differing definitions of terms cause a tremendous about of confusion and often cause people to talk right past each other. Unless people fully accept that with all of its implications dialogue can never happen.
 
Please. Back to the topic, the OP.

As another poster said, there are different POVs in Orthodoxy, and some of them are extreme. The bishops who wrote these letters are extremists, and IMHO speak only for themselves. But I really think it is extremists like this who will do their best to prevent church reunion. But they are small and insignificant.

One needs to realize that these are just ordinary bishops. In the Greek type of Orthodoxy all or most bishops are called Metropolitans and they all have the same authority and “power”.

Greeks are not the only Orthodox, and the Patriarch of Constantinople is not the Orthodox Pope.
 
andrewstx said:
Please. Back to the topic, the OP.

As another poster said, there are different POVs in Orthodoxy, and some of them are extreme. The bishops who wrote these letters are extremists, and IMHO speak only for themselves. But I really think it is extremists like this who will do their best to prevent church reunion. But they are small and insignificant.

One needs to realize that these are just ordinary bishops. In the Greek type of Orthodoxy all or most bishops are called Metropolitans and they all have the same authority and “power”.

Greeks are not the only Orthodox, and the Patriarch of Constantinople is not the Orthodox Pope.
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Agreed, but some posters seem to be sugar coating what these bishops said.
 
Seraphim73 said:
Don’t patronize me. I’ve been around this forum long enough to know you know better. Differing definitions of terms cause a tremendous about of confusion and often cause people to talk right past each other. Unless people fully accept that with all of its implications dialogue can never happen.
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What they said was rude, disrespectful and replete with lies, i.e., if you want dialogue than it’s best to do away with these.
 
Seraphim73 said:
Pardon me but this thread is not that long. You could take a moment to read the rest of the posts before posting yourself. I already said the letter was authentic. And my comment about the internet skewing reality was not made in regards to this letter. I try to be a respectful guest, I would expect you to have the same respect for me.
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I read each and every post before I posted. If your comment was not made in regards to this letter, which happens to be the subject matter of the thread, then why did you make it? Just a general comment? Sorry if I misinterpreted your comment but I think it is understandable given the context within which it was written. In any case, forgive me for upsetting you.
 
SteveVH said:
I read each and every post before I posted. If your comment was not made in regards to this letter, which happens to be the subject matter of the thread, then why did you make it? Just a general comment? Sorry if I misinterpreted your comment but I think it is understandable given the context within which it was written. In any case, forgive me for upsetting you.
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After re-reading what I wrote I did not at all make it clear I was referring to the internet in general. Forgive me for behaving so rashly.
 
Forgive me for missing it if I did, but the letter does make reference to the Pope’s status as Bishop: “His Excellency” is the higher of two addresses one can make to a Bishop (the other being “His Grace”). A third possibility would be “His Holiness”, but that is obviously out of the question.

As for the rest of the letter contents, I haven’t read it so I can’t comment.
 
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