Equality Cannot be Created.

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holdencaulfield

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I have noticed that many Muslims and Jews on this site are having trouble with this problem. Let me clear it up for them.

God cannot create a being that is equal to Himself. That would contradict the all-powerful nature of God. However God can and did beget someone who is Him. Only God can be equal to God. As Catholics we do not assume that God has created another being as powerful as Himself in the Son. Why? Because the Son is Himself. The word begets is just a word in direction. It also shows that the Son is of the same nature of the Father. We do not believe that God could ever create a different being that is His equal.
 
Jesus was not begotten of God. Jesus IS God. Jesus (the Son) is eternally begotten of the Father.
 
Ghoti said:
Jesus was not begotten of God. Jesus IS God. Jesus (the Son) is eternally begotten of the Father.
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That’s what I said. God is not creating anyone equal to Himself, because Christ has always existed because He is God.
 
holdencaulfield said:
I have noticed that many Muslims and Jews on this site are having trouble with this problem. Let me clear it up for them.
God cannot create a being that is equal to Himself. That would contradict the all-powerful nature of God. However God can and did beget someone who is Him. Only God can be equal to God. As Catholics we do not assume that God has created another being as powerful as Himself in the Son. Why? Because the Son is Himself. The word begets is just a word in direction. It also shows that the Son is of the same nature of the Father. We do not believe that God could ever create a different being that is His equal.
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Hi

Kindly quote from OTBible if you are a Jew ; or from NTBible if you are a Christian that “God cannot create a being that is equal to Himself”, first for a CLAIM and then for a REASON.

I respect your religion.

Thanks
 
holdencaulfield said:
That’s what I said. God is not creating anyone equal to Himself, because Christ has always existed because He is God.
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If we know Jesus also as a man with a human soul that could be tempted as we are and things like that, did the human soul always exist as God? If it didn’t I have problems seeing how the complete Jesus always existed as God.

I believe Jesus got the power after he was born a human, and rules us as God now, when he speaks we have to obey him like we would God, but as human he still serves the one God of us all.

Zechariah 12:8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.

Zechariah 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
 
I think our belief can be summed up in the Nicene Creed:

“We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man…”

So as for “creating” a Being equal to Himself, I do not know if He would or if He could…I don’t even know that He did.
 
This question was asked:
“If we know Jesus also as a man with a human soul that could be tempted as we are and things like that, did the human soul always exist as God? If it didn’t I have problems seeing how the complete Jesus always existed as God.”

Jesus’ human soul is just that - HUMAN. It is finite. It came into existence at the moment that the man Jesus was conceived in Mary. It would be wrong to think that “Jesus the MAN” was sitting up there in heaven waiting to be born. The correct understanding is that the divine Word (which we call the Son of God, who is pure Spirit, and is eternally begotten, and is Himself God) chose a precise moment in time to be born into our world. And at that moment He was made flesh in the person of Jesus Christ. That is when the soul of Jesus came to be. But Jesus’ divine nature (the Son - the Word) is eternal and existed before the man Jesus was conceived.

The “complete Jesus” (if you want to call it that) is the merging of the divine “Logos” (the Word, the Son of God) with the man Jesus (son of Mary who was miraculously conceived). Jesus possesses two natures - one human and finite, the other divine and eternal.

Thomas
 
Ghoti said:
Jesus was not begotten of God. Jesus IS God. Jesus (the Son) is eternally begotten of the Father.
Click to expand...
From the catholic bible:

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son: that whosoever believeth in him may not perish, but may have life everlasting.

clearly says there that the son is the begotten of God.
 
Sister_Amy said:
If Jesus was begotten, can Jesus be destroyed?
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Yes, if you can destroy God. Jesus is one in being with the Father and of the same substance as the Father. Therefore, whatever would kill the Father will kill the Son.

Wait, that means that Jesus cannot be destroyed.
 
ralphinal said:
Yes, if you can destroy God. Jesus is one in being with the Father and of the same substance as the Father. Therefore, whatever would kill the Father will kill the Son.

Wait, that means that Jesus cannot be destroyed.
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What happened to Jesus after the crucifixion, before the resurrection then?
 
Question:
“If Jesus was begotten, can Jesus be destroyed?”

Interesting question. I hope you are not confusing Jesus being born of Mary with the Son of God “begotten” by the Father.

I assume you mean the Son begotten by the Father, as in the relationship between these persons of the Godhead.

No! The Son cannot be destroyed. No more tha God the father can be destroyed.

You should not think that “begotten” means “sexual intercourse” was involved. It is a term that describes the relationship between these two persons. It is not meant in a physical sense. It is an eternal procession from the Father. It has always been and it cannot change.

Thomas
 
Sister_Amy said:
What happened to Jesus after the crucifixion, before the resurrection then?
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the crucifixion was the death of Jesus’s human body and it alone. As Jesus was like man in all things but sin, and was truly man, he was able to die. Death of the body is not destruction. Now, his human body died but then he rose again from the dead. With his ressurection, he was given his glorified body, which can never again be killed.
 
Sister_Amy said:
What was he while he was dead?
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His body lay in a tomb, his Spirit went and preached to the souls in prison, proclaiming the Good News.

Does Islam teach that we are made of two parts: body and soul? The soul is immortal while the body dies.
 
Sort of… but Muslims believe that both the body and the soul are created, and that the body will be resurrected. Muslims believe Jesus had a body, and a spirit, both things that are creations–meaning not the Creator, which does not exist inside the creation.
 
Sister_Amy said:
Sort of… but Muslims believe that both the body and the soul are created, and that the body will be resurrected. Muslims believe Jesus had a body, and a spirit, both things that are creations–meaning not the Creator, which does not exist inside the creation.
Click to expand...
I thought that they had an understanding of it. It helps when we agree on a starting point.

For now, let us start with a timeline of Jesus.

First, he was begotten of God the Father as God the Son.
Second, Creation,
Third, Incarnation. The Son (or Word according to John) became flesh
Forth, Life
Fifth, Suffering and Death
Sixth, Body in Tomb, Spirit preaching
Seventh, Ressurection. Body and Spirit re-unified into glorified form.
Eight, walking the earth as glorified man
Ninth, Ascension into heaven
Tenth, Sits at right hand of Father
Eleventh, will come again to judge Living and Dead.
 
ralphinal said:
I thought that they had an understanding of it. It helps when we agree on a starting point.

For now, let us start with a timeline of Jesus.

First, he was begotten of God the Father as God the Son.
Second, Creation,
Third, Incarnation. The Son (or Word according to John) became flesh
Forth, Life
Fifth, Suffering and Death
Sixth, Body in Tomb, Spirit preaching
Seventh, Ressurection. Body and Spirit re-unified into glorified form.
Eight, walking the earth as glorified man
Ninth, Ascension into heaven
Tenth, Sits at right hand of Father
Eleventh, will come again to judge Living and Dead.
Click to expand...
Could you do me a super-huge favor and show scriptural evidence (to satisfy my own curiosity) for your first, sixth, and eleventh points? (I think I know of references for the rest.)
 
FaithofAbraham said:
If we know Jesus also as a man with a human soul that could be tempted as we are and things like that, did the human soul always exist as God? If it didn’t I have problems seeing how the complete Jesus always existed as God.
Click to expand...
Christ’s humanity did not always exist. However we believe that the Son always existed although His humanity was created.
I believe Jesus got the power after he was born a human, and rules us as God now, when he speaks we have to obey him like we would God, but as human he still serves the one God of us all.
Click to expand...
No, Christ was always God. One cannot become God.
Zechariah 12:8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.
Click to expand...
Zechariah 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
Click to expand...
I don’t understand what you are using these quotes for.
 
Sister_Amy said:
Sort of… but Muslims believe that both the body and the soul are created, and that the body will be resurrected. Muslims believe Jesus had a body, and a spirit, both things that are creations–meaning not the Creator, which does not exist inside the creation.
Click to expand...
We believe that only His body was created.
 
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