Errors in the Qur'an

[De_Maria]

You ask:

‘The question that immediately comes to my mind, is this. Mohammed had one job. Create a reproduction of the Divine Quran. Yet, he did not, did he? Please answer yes or no.’

I don’t understand the highlighted part of this question. Please clarify.

Is there a heavenly and uncreated Quran? Yes or no.

You claim that the ‘secretaries of Mohamed did not see the angel.’ I assume you mean that they never saw an angel, not in any of the revelations over a span of twenty-three years.

Correct.

The burden of proof is always on the one making the claim. Please provide your proof.

That’s simple. You will not find even one eyewitness account from any of them describing the angel.

By the way, it is not the best use of your time to insist on mere ‘yes’ or ‘no’ answers. This bunny will always say that which – in his opinion – needs to be said!

I can’t forbid or stop you from adding your opinion. However, a straight answer makes it easier to understand the added information.

Peace.

And to you, as well.

 

[Niblo]

Hello again.

Thank you for your reply. I’ll be away from my desk for a few days. God willing, I’ll return to our discussion on my return (it might be best to deal with one topic at a time…what do you think?).

I always give ‘straight’ answers, if by that you mean answers that are well-researched, thorough, and supported by relevant texts. This is my style…and how I was taught to act. Is there a better way to share knowledge, and to grow in understanding?

There is, of course, no obligation to read my ramblings. If - at any time - you require clarification, please ask.

 

[SalamKhan]

Hi,

It seems that Mary the Theotokos is confused with Moses’s sister Miriam whose name is identical with Mary’s in Arabic. See Qur’an 19:27-35 and Qur’an 3:35-45.

Not only that but I have also found that in the Qur’an, Mary is thought to be the third person in the Trinity instead of the Holy Spirit. See Qur’an 5:116-117 and Qur’an 4:171.

I would ask not to make assumptions if it isn’t clear or specific. Even from a non Muslim point of view, there is a lot of context to take into account.

From Neal Robinson’s ‘Christ in Islam and Christianity’:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Also these:

http://home.earthlink.net/~mysticalrose/bride2.html

Collyridianism - Wikipedia

As far as the Qur’anic concept of ‘The Book’ goes, it is not a physical book:

“ She pointed at him. They said, ‘How can we converse with an infant?’ But he said: ‘I am a servant of God. He has granted me the Book; made me a prophet”- Qur’an 19:29-30

Obviously, an infant wasn’t carrying a physical book, otherwise they wouldn’t have questioned if he could talk.

 

[historyfan81]

I know what you are trying to point out but don’t be hasty

We do have some documents for example abubakar convertion in the Hadith not all Hadith is reliable but some documents are so yes the Muslims in this case do have a point

 

[historyfan81]

This is something I don’t understand about the quaranic Jesus and Allah .

1. the word injiel come from ēvangelium

Good news means the birth sacrifice ans resurrection of Jesus .

Good news in the Islamic context is wierd.

The gospel is not the good news
Since it not different to what was revealed earlier .

If anything the good news should be the quran not the gospel .

Since it’s the final revelation of God by muhamed.

Looking from a secular perspective it seemed like the author of the quran took the word and didn’t know what it was .

1. Jesus in Islam is technically a failure and a big one

2.1) Allah indirectly created chirstianity

As it was Allah you made it seem like Jesus had died on the cross
Thia same Allah never told any of the Muslim apoatoles of Jesus that he did this
And therefore the apostoles belibed he died on the cross.

2.2) the Muslim Jesus efforts dof giving Islam to the Jews didn’t even last 10 years.

The earliest chirstian creed dates (using the later date )
To 40 AD and it tells Jesus died in the cross according to the scripture for our sins and he rose from the dead .

Not 10 years after Jesus departure … Islam was already this corrupted.

Jesus did have any Muslim convert that lasted the decade .

1. why did Allah change his name ?

Never understood why his name is Allah in Islam when in the Bible it’s YHW
Even the names of the prophet we see the name of the yhw
This made more clear since even the prophets have the name YHW in them

 

[Niblo]

The secretaries of Mohamed did not see the angel.

Hello again.

Before going any further, I need to know if this an accurate description of your argument:

Muhammad claimed that he was addressed by an angel – at various periods over twenty-three years. However, since there is no independent – written – eyewitness testimony supporting his claim (no description of the angel) then the claim must be false.

Please feel free to tweak this description, before returning it.

My intention, in šāʾ Allāh, is to address this matter first, before answering your second question (whether, in my opinion, the Qur’an is created or uncreated). Be advised that I might not be able to respond all that quickly. I’ve lots to do – both at work and at home – between now and the New Year.

Many thanks for your patience.

Peace.

 

[SalamKhan]

the word injiel come from ēvangelium

The Qur’an addresses a Christian audience when using this word. Similar to how it uses the word ‘rasul’, meaning ‘messenger’ for Muhammad (S) when addressing the pagans, but uses the familiar word ‘nabi’, meaning ‘prophet’ for Muhammad when addressing the people of the Book.

2.1) Allah indirectly created chirstianity

That Jesus (A) was not really crucified, but the event happened in some form, is a popular interpretation, based on the literal reading of the verse. Some, such as the Ismaili Shiahs, use the Qur’an itself to demonstrate that Jesus (A) was a martyr. Other scholars, such as Imran Nazar Hosein, uses the Qur’an to demonstrate both the death & resurrection of Jesus (A).

2.2) the Muslim Jesus efforts dof giving Islam to the Jews didn’t even last 10 years.

Many prophets prior to Jesus (A) were also rejected & even killed by their own people, as the Qur’an mentions. In the New Testament, Jesus (A) refers to Jerusalem as the killer of prophets.

why did Allah change his name ?

God is referred to by many names in the Qur’an. What is the meaning of YHWH?

 

[historyfan81]

good that but linguistics have meaning the good news ie the gospel ie the injeel

The message of good news is described as theology in many of the [New Testament](. It relates to the saving acts of [God] due to the work of Jesus on the cross and [Jesus’ resurrection from the dead] which bring reconciliation (“atonement”) between people and God.

and like i said what good news are in the islamic injeel if it no diferent to the islamic torah .

so if i take your word for it , yeah it looks life the author of the quran tried to the word injeel To concet with the chirstians with out knowing the meaning of the word…

yes the quran states that jesus was never crucified, its not a debate on it really says it seemd to them like it did

but like i said why did allah tell the apostoles this was not the real jesus being crucified with that you can stop the chirstian movement

that the jews crucified jesus when they didnt

“Many prophets prior to Jesus (A) were also rejected & even killed by their own people, as the Qur’an mentions. In the New Testament, Jesus (A) refers to Jerusalem as the killer of prophets.”

this true , but like i said 10 years ? the apostoles where muslims and lived with jesus and jesus though them according to the islamic view

so… its not the fact that he died and then his message was corrupeted ,IT was the speed of it , its not like 100 years and some other guys curropted the injeel.

by 40 AD most of the apostoles where alive the muslims apostoles of jesus … had already corrupted islam to the piont where they where saying jesus died for our sins

and rose from the dead… how did it happend? and why? these men where thougth to be muslims why and lived along side isa and they proclaiming things that goes against islam.

allah does have many names but there is not a single mention of YHW in the quran , muslims have tried to argue this by saying YHWH is a title therefore its not traduced. but not YHW is his name and adonai is the tittle.

YHWH in the old testament is made clear to be the name of god
exodus 6

“I used to appear to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as El Shaddai, but I did not make myself known to them by my name YHWH.”

so did allah change his name? why do the prophets name have YHWH in them but allah never one says
i revealed my self to them for iam YHWH

 

[SalamKhan]

good that but linguistics have meaning the good news ie the gospel ie the injeel

Sorry, but either I don’t understand what you’re saying, or I don’t understand the relevance of your point.

yes the quran states that jesus was never crucified, its not a debate on it really says it seemd to them like it did

“Do not say that those who are killed in God’s cause are dead; they are alive, though you do not realize it.”- Qur’an 2:154

“[Prophet], do not think of those who have been killed in God’s way as dead. They are alive with their Lord, well provided for”- Qur’an 3:169

These verses were proof for the Ismaili Shiahs that Jesus (A) is a martyr, it’s an ancient position. As for the position of Imran Nazar Hosein, he rejects the popular Muslim substitution theory on the basis of the Qur’an:

“ No burdened soul will bear the burden of another: even if a heavily laden soul should cry for help, none of its load will be carried, not even by a close relative. But you [Prophet] can only warn those who fear their Lord, though they cannot see Him, and keep up the prayer- whoever purifies himself does so for his own benefit–– everything returns to God.”- 35:18

“ that no soul shall bear the burden of another”-53:38

Then he interprets the crucifixion verse on the basis of the same Arabic root word used in the following Qur’anic verses:

“God said, ‘Jesus, I will take you back and raise you up to Me: I will purify you of the disbelievers. To the Day of Resurrection I will make those who follow you superior to those who disbelieved. Then you will all return to Me and I will judge between you regarding your differences.”- 3:55

“ God takes the souls of the dead and the souls of the living while they sleep- He keeps hold of those whose death He has ordained and sends the others back until their appointed time- there truly are signs in this for those who reflect.”- 39:42

There are incidents nowadays of people being declared dead, only to find themselves awake inside a morgue.

The earliest known atonement theory was that of the devil’s ransom, which is absurd & doesn’t have any biblical basis. Also, Anselm’s satisfaction & other atonement theories that followed, are based on the doctrine of original sin, not known until Augustine of Hippo, who was accused by his Christian opponents as still being a Manichean because of this doctrine. The Eastern & Oriental Orthodox churches neither believe in the doctrine of original sin, nor Western atonement theories, & they also claim to follow the apostles. Other early sects, such as the Ebionites, used water instead of wine for the eucharist, because they rejected the sacrificial aspect of the crucifixion.

 

[historyfan81]

happy birth day

“There are incidents nowadays of people being declared dead, only to find themselves awake inside a morgue.”

if we take historical accounts of cruxificion and the biblical accounnts with out devine intervention jesus is 100% a dead man.

when i was refering to the creed is this one

For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve."

ie cephas is the jewish name of peter

 

[SalamKhan]

if we take historical accounts of cruxificion and the biblical accounnts with out devine intervention jesus is 100% a dead man.

Well then, he is a martyr as the Ismaili Shiahs say, & this is my view as well. I am simply letting you know that it’s not so black & white in Islam.

 

[historyfan81]

en, he is a martyr as the Ismaili Shiahs say, & this is my view as well. I am simply letting you know that it’s not so black & white in Islam.

hmm i guess its not 100% agrred that jesus didnt or did not die in islam , but wouldnt ismaili shiahs be considered a heretic by other more traditional muslims?

 

[SalamKhan]

I can accept their position on Jesus’ crucifixion without having to agree with their doctrines. They aren’t considered heretics on this issue, most Muslims aren’t even aware that they hold this position.