Errors of Pius IX

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This from the Catechism clarifies EENS: Actually, here is the teaching of the Church, found in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, promulgated by our late Holy Father, Pope John Paul II, of happy memory, as a “sure norm for teaching the faith:”
**
818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272 819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276

And further, from the Catechism:

838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."322 Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."323 With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord’s Eucharist."324

Speaking of Pope Pius IX, I have a reproduction of his death mask hangin’ on the wall…taken from the original! It kind of freaks people out (which isn’t why I bought it).
 
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reen12:
Actually, in the post, as I originally wrote it, I said:

Is that like Carthago, delenda est? 😃

but I didn’t want to get in too deep. 🙂
I thought better of that, too.

quote: adnauseum
.

All kidding aside, you’re absolutely right, on Arianism.
It’s one of the few points in Church history, where
a doctrinal statement was called for, IMHO.

quote: adnauseum

I appreciate that, adnauseum. I have a reallllllly high IQ,
buttressed by 40 years of study. I’m also quite ill,
mentally, so I appreciate the outlet that the forums
provide, for social interaction.

As to Evangelicalism, however one describes it, it truely
is growing, by leaps and bounds.
For those who wish “meat and potatoes”, intellectually,
Roman Catholicism provides a feast!

Best regards,

reen12*

Reen: I pray for you when I see your name in the threads. Don’t despair, if He is sought, He will be found, and He alone can compass the limits of His Own Mercy and Compassion.
 
mshealy,
Pius IX’s claims in this regard clearly contradict Vatican II, which is official dogma.
On Religious Liberty, I agree with Fr. Brian Harrison’s conclusion that Pius IX’s teaching in no way “clearly contradict” Vatican II. I suggest you either misundertand Pius IX’s teachings or Vatican II’s teachings.

See Pius IX, Vatican II and Religious Liberty - by Brian W. Harrison

Also see a detailed discussion on religious liberty here:
Against Indifferentism

Vatican II taught that all humanity has a freedom from coersion against their beliefs. Vatican II did not teach that humanity has a freedom to error without consequences of such sinfulness, which is what Pius IX condemned.

As for popes on slavery and the supposed “change” with Vatican II, this too is ridiculously unconvincing. See my blog here:

**Was Catholic moral doctrine on slavery erroneous? - **View
 
It is more accurate to state that Vatican II contradicts the prior teachings of the chruch on conversion, The Syllabus was first and corraborated previous teachings. While opeing the windows of the Church V-II also let in alot of dust which has a tendency to dull one’s mind and to make one suseptible to the desease of moral relativism.Also, to note that JPII made Pius IX a blessed of the Church means that the JPII had no problems with the Syllabus. If it was written in error Pius would never been made a blessed.
 
The Syllabus of Errors, understood in its correct context, is just as valid today as when first published. The Catholic Church continues to condemn such errors. Nothing promulgated by Vatican II has changed Catholic doctrine in contradiction to the Catholic doctrine that came before it.
 
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itsjustdave1988:
The Syllabus of Errors, understood in its correct context, is just as valid today as when first published. The Catholic Church continues to condemn such errors. Nothing promulgated by Vatican II has changed Catholic doctrine in contradiction to the Catholic doctrine that came before it.
Yes, the article I posted in #15 shows this really well. It goes through and each and every error in the Syllabus and compares it with Vatican II.
 
As to heresies, 3 Persons in one God, strikes me as
a departure from:
Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.
But then, heresy to one group, is termed “fulfillment of
prophecy” by another.
I think most of your Evangelical buddies would have a problem with Unitarianism.

The quote you posted does not contradict the Trinitarian doctrine-God is indeed one God but in three persons. Bible one-liners do not contradict the meaning of the whole Bible taken in proper context and the teaching authority of the Church. The issue of the Trinity was defined loooong ago, it is rediculous to think that we ignored obvious “Bible-truth” for some 1500 yrs. or purposely “changed” the nature of God.

Heresy is heresy, it doesn’t matter if heretics don’t think they follow heresy-their personal convictions don’t change the facts.
 
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cathmonarchmom:
It is more accurate to state that Vatican II contradicts the prior teachings of the chruch on conversion, The Syllabus was first and corraborated previous teachings. While opeing the windows of the Church V-II also let in alot of dust which has a tendency to dull one’s mind and to make one suseptible to the desease of moral relativism.Also, to note that JPII made Pius IX a blessed of the Church means that the JPII had no problems with the Syllabus. If it was written in error Pius would never been made a blessed.
Well, this isn’t a comment on the Syllabus, as I don’t believe that the Council was in contradiction of it or it of the council, but I can shake the dust out of my mind enough to tell you that lots of people make it to sainthood whose ideas do not make it to dogma. One would have to be afflicted with the inability to read critically to think that any of the people who posted above and insisted that the Syllabus/VII aren’t contradictory are somehow moral relativists and a quick scan of their prior posts would demonstrate otherwise.
 
Hi, JKirkLVNV

quote: JKirkLVNV
Reen: I pray for you when I see your name in the threads. Don’t despair, if He is sought, He will be found, and He alone can compass the limits of His Own Mercy and Compassion
.

I do appreciate your prayers.

Kindest regards,

reen12
 
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reen12:
Thanks for these links. They were nice to read.

One funny thing I found, I had a Lutheran a month ago telling me how popes have been pulling Catholics around all this time because they dont even believe in the Gospel and Christ, he then cited a quote where Pius IX said that Christ was just a myth. I asked him for a source, suspecting it was the usual bogus anti-C “quotations” that a Catholic supposedly said. Anyway he didnt know of one so I concluded he made it up, well…in that Syllabus on paragraph 7 it just happens to read:
7. The prophecies and miracles set forth and recorded in the Sacred Scriptures are the fiction of poets, and the mysteries of the Christian faith the result of philosophical investigations. In the books of the Old and the New Testament there are contained mythical inventions, and Jesus Christ is Himself a myth.
that was pretty funny when I read it, its true the Pope did say that, its just not what it sounds like!!
 
Dear cathmonarchmom,

quote: cathmonarchmom
So, what we know as Catholics is that the old covenants are no longer valid
Exactly. “what we know as Catholics…”

It is the belief of the RCC that the old covenants are no
longer valid. This belief is also shared by other
Christian denominations, who hold that Jesus of
Nazareth was Messiah. Christians further believe
that Jesus replaced the old covenants by fulfilling
same.

One can claim knowledge, through faith.
Knowing, through faith, is called belief.

Best, :tiphat:

reen12
 
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reen12:
One can claim knowledge, through faith.
Knowing, through faith, is called belief.
Then can we really know anything? We have faith that our thoughts and senses coincide with reality. Faith in our own minds :hmmm: Que profundo 😛
 
quote: Genesis315
Then can we really know anything? We have faith that our thoughts and senses coincide with reality. Faith in our own minds :hmmm: Que profundo 😛
In fact, there have been philosophical works, written on
just that topic:
We have faith that our thoughts and senses coincide with reality
Rene Descartes springs to mind. [no pun intended]
as does Emmanuel Kant and the later phenomenolgists,
to name but a few.

The entire philosophical realm of epistemology,
devotes itself to such questions. Epistemology,
along with Ontology, comprise what is called
Metaphysics. [Knowledge and Being]

Basically, epistemology asks the question:
What can we know, with certainty?
How do we know, what we know, and how
much confidence can we have in that knowledge.

One doesn’t have to indulge in scientism, to know
that there is a great difference between physical reality
and spiritual reality, in the realm of apprehending.
The one is apprehended by the senses, the other
through faith.

That’s why a miracle is called a miracle.
The laws of nature are over-ridden, in a miracle.

Knowledge, by faith, is a knowledge of the things
of God.
That knowledge is called belief, because it is not
in the realm of the physical senses…and, BTW,
it is also why the Eucharist is called the miracle
of the Eucharist.
Our “senses” tell us it is bread and wine.
Faith tells some that it is the body and blood of Christ.
[Didn’t Aquinas write a hymn, that basically says:
“Faith makes up for what the senses fail to see.”]

Praestet fides supplemenum
Sensuum defectui


As you know, Aquinas is the great Catholic
theologian, Genesis315.

You might askhim if his work is entitled to:
quote: Genesis315
Que profundo 😛
Best, :tiphat:

reen12
 
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reen12:
The entire philosophical realm of epistemology,
devotes itself to such questions. Epistemology,
along with Ontology, comprise what is called
Metaphysics. [Knowledge and Being]
I actually had to take a class my sophomore year in high school called “Theory of Knowledge.” It’s very interesting stuff.
 
Hi, Genesis315

quote: Genesis315
I actually had to take a class my sophomore year in high school called “Theory of Knowledge.” It’s very interesting stuff.
I’m glad that you, too, found it interesting.
I tell you something. I referred to Kant,
but I almost broke my brain, trying to
understand what the man was saying. 😃
I’m not sure I ever *did *comprehend.

Epistemology was my area. I took a degree in
Philosophy, but, til this day, theology interests
me more.

Did you ever hear the expression:
Philosophy is the handmaid of Theology?
Theologians frequently employ philosophical
terms, when expressing a theological
insight.

St. John did this, in his gospel.
He called Christ “the Logos” = “the Word”
Logos, in Greek philosophy, basically
meant the “informing principle”.
It is a term expressing incredible breadth and depth
and beauty.

I’ll stop, before I get carried away! 😃

Best to you, Genesis315,

reen12
 
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