Escathology (End Times)

[beehumble]

Until Rome makes a decision which overrules him, Bishop Peric has authority over that part of the world; and in spite of all of the pro-Medjugorje propaganda to the contrary, his directives are to be obeyed.

Actually, as far as the apparition goes, the Vatican can intervene and 'take over' the investigation of an alleged apparition. That article you linked to has an error of omission in it - it says the bishop has sole authority over it - the error is it leaves out the 'unless the Vatican intervenes' part of it.
Are you saying the Vatican has said nobody can go to Medjugorje? Are you saying the Vatican has not set up a commission to investigate and issue a ‘final decision’ on Medjugorje? Are you saying one bishop is higher in authority than the Pope and a council of bishops?

The Vatican has explicitly said people can go to Medjugorje. The Vatican has explicitly said it has formed a commission to decide Medjugorje.
Doctor of the Church and renowned Bible scholar and translator St. Jerome expressed his opinion that the canon might not include some of the books that it now does. But after the Council explicitly decided the canon, he said of course it should include those books (that he questioned) because the council united with the Pope had said so - the Magesterium of the Church had decided, so he in complete obedience agreed. In other words, it is now up to the Vatican commission and not the local ordinary as regards Medjugorje. His opinion is his opinion and the commission will take account of his objections.

At present, I believe in Medjugorje; you do not. Whatever the Church decides will be my position.

And this thread is more about the end times - which I and many others believe are here. But note that even if you believe Medj is a great deception of the devil, you too are alluding to it being the end times since the Bible says there will be great Satanic deception in the end times.

From the CCC on the Deception:

Before Christ’s second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers. The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth will unveil the “mystery of iniquity”** in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems** at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme** religious deception** is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh.

Of course I do not see anything from that apparition leading away from the truth but apparently you do so then perhaps to you it is the supreme religious deception mentioned in the Catechism of the Catholic Church that comes in the end times. So then both you and I are thinking of the end times, but from different sides of the coin.

God bless you.

 

[beehumble]

i`ll stick with Donal Foley.

Dead right; and theyve been churning em out for almost three decades!
For the authors of the books: "Theres gold in them thar hills!" Probably even more for the "pilgrimage" operators. Better not forget the vested interests in the Medjugorje area, itself. Theres a lot of money at stake…

Hmmmm…I wonder if Donal Foley made any money off of his book? Seems to me money is being made on both sides of the issue. But that does not decide its authenticity.

 

[Fink]

Actually, as far as the apparition goes, the Vatican can intervene and 'take over' the investigation of an alleged apparition. That article you linked to has an error of omission in it - it says the bishop has sole authority over it - the error is it leaves out the 'unless the Vatican intervenes' part of it.

The Father Peter Joseph article is just a general warning against chasing after alleged supernatural phenomena. The “unless the Vatican intervenes” is a red herring. The FACT is that until Rome overrides the bishop, his directives should be obeyed.

Are you saying the Vatican has said nobody can go to Medjugorje? Are you saying the Vatican has not set up a commission to investigate and issue a ‘final decision’ on Medjugorje? Are you saying one bishop is higher in authority than the Pope and a council of bishops?

The Vatican has not stopped private individuals; but it has “forbidden” pilgrimages. It can forbid all it likes: most people going to the place have ignored it. Along with the tour operators who openly advertise “Pilgrimages”. More disobedience.

The Vatican has explicitly said people can go to Medjugorje. The Vatican has explicitly said it has formed a commission to decide Medjugorje.

i haven`t disputed either of those. Why make those two statements?

Doctor of the Church and renowned Bible scholar and translator St. Jerome expressed his opinion…

…so he in complete obedience agreed. In other words, it is now up to the Vatican commission and not the local ordinary as regards Medjugorje. His opinion is his opinion and the commission will take account of his objections.

Dead right; and until a decision against the bishop is made; he has authority over that place. That`s shown by the fact that the pope directed Cardinal Schonborn to apologise to Bishop Peric.

And this thread is more about the end times - which I and many others believe are here. But note that even if you believe Medj is a great deception of the devil, you too are alluding to it being the end times since the Bible says there will be great Satanic deception in the end times.

Weve been living in the end times since our Lords time.

From the CCC on the Deception:

Before Christ’s second coming…

…The supreme** religious deception** is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh.

Of course I do not see anything from that apparition leading away from the truth but apparently you do so then perhaps to you it is the supreme religious deception mentioned in the Catechism of the Catholic Church that comes in the end times.

i certainly dont think its **THE **supreme religious deception; but i think its a** DEMONIC **religious deception. Its difficult to get that word out, seeing how long i was convinced it was from Heaven. It`s not easy when one has to do a 180.

So then both you and I are thinking of the end times, but from different sides of the coin.

The world may go on for centuries, or even millennia…yet.

Hmmmm…I wonder if Donal Foley made any money off of his book? Seems to me money is being made on both sides of the issue. But that does not decide its authenticity.

i hope hes making some money out of it. At least thatd make up for some of the abuse hes copped from the likes of Denis Nolan. ive contributed a bit, having purchased at least six of the first edition, and recently, six of the second edition.
The pro-Medj side would`ve made heaps more: after all, for every ant-Medj book published, there have been dozens of pro-Medj books.
Wayne Weible has done very well, thank you very much, as a professional Medjugorje propagandist.

The only gold in them thar hills surrounding that area is very likely fool`s gold…and that contains sulphur, maybe appropriately.

By the way, have you ever wondered why some of us are so firmly against the thing? Lies, deceptions, disobedience, ad nauseum. We DO have our reasons. It`s not because we feel like being bloody-minded.

 

[beehumble]

The Father Peter Joseph article is just a general warning against chasing after alleged supernatural phenomena. The “unless the Vatican intervenes” is a red herring. The FACT is that until Rome overrides the bishop, his directives should be obeyed.

Actually not true. By taking over the apparition, Rome HAS overridden the local bishop. The site has not been condemned to this day, and as such, is open to all except OFFICIAL Church pilgrimages - because this could confuse people into thinking the Church had approved it when it has not. Nor has it condemned it - to disallow PERSONAL pilgrimages would likewise confuse people into thinking it had been condemned, when it has not.

As for the local ordinary’s authority on allowing information to be printed etc on a private as yet unapproved apparition, visit this link:
lovingmother.org/Misc/CanonsoftheChurchENG.htm

The Vatican has not stopped private individuals; but it has “forbidden” pilgrimages. It can forbid all it likes: most people going to the place have ignored it. Along with the tour operators who openly advertise “Pilgrimages”. More disobedience.

You should really get your facts straight. The Church has forbidden OFFICIAL Church-sanctioned pilgrimages - those run and organized by the Church, but it has actually gone out of its way to state that personal pilgrimages are aok, and has directed the site to provide pastoral care (opportunites for confession, Mass etc) for all those who visit the site in search of healing, in search of God.

Dead right; and until a decision against the bishop is made; he has authority over that place. That`s shown by the fact that the pope directed Cardinal Schonborn to apologise to Bishop Peric.

He has authority over the diocese, but not over the apparition - Rome has that authority. A visiting cleric under proper protocol should inform the presiding ordinary of his intent to visit, and it is my understanding the Cardinal Schonborn did not do that so he apologized. I do not know how often the protocol is not followed without any objections being raised; because Bishop Peric is against, and Cardinal Schonborn is pro (ie there is a disagreement) Bishop Peric complained openly about the breach of protocol, which is in itself bad form. He could have quietly spoken to Cardinal Schonborn about it.

Weve been living in the end times since our Lords time.

Some of us believe, based on the signs of these times, that we are living at the end of the end times - the short time of Satan mentioned in Revelation 20 that comes before the very end of thigns and the Final Judgment.

The world may go on for centuries, or even millennia…yet.

And this present world might end this year, or before this decade ends. This present imperfect, sin-marred world ends by getting transformed to a pure state.

By the way, have you ever wondered why some of us are so firmly against the thing? Lies, deceptions, disobedience, ad nauseum. We DO have our reasons. It`s not because we feel like being bloody-minded.

As time goes by, any reasons the opposition has are falling apart. The disobedience of the two priests has been shown to have actually been an overreach and an error by the bishop. The distorted statement attributed to the apparition that all religions are equal has been shown to be just that, a distortion (it actually alluded to people of all religions being loved equally by God). Seer’s wealth or non-wealth is a non-issue. They do not live like millionaires. BMW’s and Mercedes Benz are used as taxi cabs in Germany and Europe and are not considered so much as luxury cars there like over here. Would people feel better if they were poor and destitute, and their children begging in the street for food each day? They have families to support. Their non-religious vocation is also a non-issue. Marriage and family life is a God-honored vocation too - God created the family, afterall.

But remember this: those who spend time debating it instead of praying more and returning to God are wasting time. Time is short. We are rapidly heading towards the final denouement of Fatima.

God bless you.

P.S. If you want to read a good book that not only tells what happened in the major apparitions of the twentieth century, but for the first time explains the WHY behind those apparitions, read A While Longer. It will open your eyes, I think; it shows how Fatima is the most important event since the Apostles walked the earth, and how its final fulfillment might be just “around the corner”.

 

[Michael_Francis]

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Please refrain from departing topic and avoid discussion/promotion of unapproved private revelations as per ***Banned Topics

 

[Lev23]

(1) Post-millennialism – this view interprets the “thousand years” as a very long time. This view also holds that God’s kingdom is being advanced in the world by His grace and the world will eventually be Christianized. Then Christ will return at the close of this period during a time of righteousness and peace. The problem with this view is that the Scriptures do not teach that the world will be even relatively Christianized before the Second Coming. For example, in Matt. 13:24-30;36-43, Jesus says the wicked and the righteous will co-exist until the end of the world, when they will be judged, and either inherit eternal life, or be thrown into eternal fire.

Agreed.

(2) Pre-millenialism (also called “millenarianism”) – like post-millennialists, this view also interprets the “thousand years” as a golden age on earth when the world will be Christianized. But they believe that this period will occur after Christ’s second coming, during which time Christ will reign physically on earth. They believe the Final Judgment occurs when the millennium is over. But Scripture does not teach that there is a thousand year span between the Second Coming and Final Judgment. Instead, Jesus said that when He comes a second time in glory, He will immediately repay every man for what he has done. Matt. 16:27. When Jesus comes, He will separate the sheep from the goats and render judgment. Matt. 25:31-46. There is nothing about any period of time between His coming and final judgment.

The scriptures are full of references to the messiah’s(Jesus Christ) physical reign on earth. During that time when Christ physically reigns, the earth(nations) will know a peace that they have never experienced before. The prophets, especially Isaiah, details how the lamb and lion will lay together, the child will play by the hole of the asp, the nations will not know war anymore, etc.,etc. In the 1000 year reign, Christ will have already married His Church and Israel will be His people and land again, restored. The sheep and goats judgement will happen at Christ’s second coming to Israel. He will judge the nations how they treated his “brothers”. Those from the nations that are “sheep” go into the physical 1000 year kingdom of Christ, where Satan is bound for that 1000 years. They will live in the greatest peace ever known to the nations, with Christ reigning. But the scriptures also make it clear that during that time, some will still choose to do their own will, and will have to be punished-
Zechariah 14:16-19
Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD Almighty, and to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles. If any of the peoples of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD Almighty, they will have no rain. If the Egyptian people do not go up and take part, they will have no rain. The LORD will bring on them the plague he inflicts on the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles. This will be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles.

Man’s refusal to do God’s will during His only Son’s glorious physical reign explains why it is so easy for Satan to deceive the nations at the end of the 1000 year reign. So your detail on how the whole world is “christianized” in pre-millenialism is not entirely accurate.

(3) Amillennialism – this view also interprets the “thousand years” symbolically, but, ulike the pre and post views, not as a golden age on earth. This view believes the millennium is the period of Christ’s rule in heaven and on earth through His Church. This is because the saints who reign with Christ and to whom judgment has been committed are said to be on their thrones in heaven. Rev. 20:4; cf. 4:4; 11:16. During this time, satan is bound and cannot hinder the spread of the gospel. Rev. 20:3. This is why, they explain, Jesus teaches the necessity of binding the “strong man” (satan) in order to plunder his house and rescue people from his grip. Matt. 12:29. This is also why, after the disciples preached the gospel and rejoiced that the demons were even subject to them, Jesus declared, “I saw satan fall like lightening from heaven.” Luke 10:18. Nevertheless, during this period, the world will not be entirely Christianized because satan, though bound, is still in some sense able to prowl around and attack souls. cf. 1 Peter 5:8. Of the three, this position is most consistent with Catholic teaching (the pre and post-millennium views have been rejected by the Church).

Revelation 20:4 is speaking of Satan’s ability to deceive the nations of the truth of God and His only Son, Jesus Christ. Satan will be bound and the survivors, the “sheep” of the sheep and goats judgement will have the truth right before their eyes. Jesus Christ will be physically before them, He will have wed His bride, the Church, and Israel will be His people and His land. Satan and all evil spirits will be bound. Idols, false religions, and all evil thoughts and desires of man will be destroyed and put into check by the truth of the reigning Jesus Christ.

I do agree with the fact that Satan is helpless against the spreading of the gospel.

 

[Lev23]

Agreed.

The scriptures are full references to the messiah’s(Jesus Christ) physical reign on earth. During that time when Christ physically reigns, the earth(nations) will know a peace that they have never experienced before. The prophets, especially Isaiah, details how the lamb and lion will lay together, the child will play by the hole of the asp, the nations will not know war anymore, etc.,etc. In the 1000 year reign, Christ will have already married His Church and Israel will be His people and land again, restored. The sheep and goats judgement will happen at Christ’s second coming to Israel. He will judge the nations how they treated his “brothers”. Those from the nations that are “sheep” go into the physical 1000 year kingdom of Christ, where Satan is bound for that 1000 years. They will live in the greatest peace ever known to the nations, and it will be ruled by Christ. But the scriptures also make it clear that during that time, some will still choose to do their own will, and will have to be punished-
Zechariah 14:16-19
Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD Almighty, and to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles. If any of the peoples of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD Almighty, they will have no rain. If the Egyptian people do not go up and take part, they will have no rain. The LORD will bring on them the plague he inflicts on the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles. This will be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles.
Man’s refusal to do God’s will during His only Son’s glorious physical reign explains why it is so easy for Satan to deceive the nations at the end of the 1000 year reign. So your detail on how the whole world is “christianized” in pre-millenialism is not entirely accurate.

Revelation 20:4 is speaking of Satan’s ability to deceive the nations of the truth of God and His only Son, Jesus Christ. Satan will be bound and the survivors, the “sheep” of the sheep and goats judgement will have the truth right before their eyes. Jesus Christ will be physically before them, He will have wed His bride, the Church, and Israel will be His people and His land. Satan and all evil spirits will be bound. Idols, false religions, and all evil thoughts and desires of man will be destroyed and put into check by the truth of the reigning Jesus Christ.

I do agree with the fact that Satan is helpless against the spreading of the gospel.

 

[Halyna]

I must “confess” that I am a Catholic who very much believes in the Millennial precept in the Revelation of John. Having spent the last 3 years studying “End Times” prophecies of the bible in depth (both the KJV and New American form), I find this the only interpretation that makes sense, assuming you take the bible literally - which I feel compelled to do.

While I realize mine is an unpopular position to hold, as a Catholic, I am unfortunately without a sufficiently experienced apologist to discuss or debate the issue with. In fact, I have a hard time finding any of my Catholic contemporaries who even read the bible, though they do own one.

When I grew up in the '50’s I attended my parish school, taught by The Sisters of the Presentation. True to proper form of that time, the bible was specifically discouraged in our indoctrination to the faith; “the bible? that is only for adults … go ask you father”.

By the time we approached high school, it changed to “that’s only for Protestants … all you need to know is in your (Baltimore) Catechism”.

Poor bible never even got opened, never was taught, never got read. So here I am approaching my own later days; exploring my relationship with Christ, trying my best to fulfill His plan for me … and reading His living words in my all-too-human attempt to know Him more fully that I may understand His Will more clearly. And all of this study, prayer and consorting with my fellow church-mates leads me to conclude this:

1. there clearly IS such a thing as the Rapture (being caught-up to meet Jesus in the air among the clouds) after-which …
2. the 7-year “End Times” events commence: World War III, the rise of the Anti-Christ, rebuilding of the 3rd Temple, the abomination of that Temple, wrapping-up with the great war called Armageddon where Christ will defeat Satan and cast him (in chains) into Hell for 1,000 years …
3. Thus proving He certainly WILL be coming back (for Armageddon), after-which …
4. there will be the great White Throne Judgement for all who were left behind, after-which …
5. Christ will reign over all the physical earth for 1,000 years of peace, and finally …
6. He will release Satan for his own piece of justice as The Archangel Michael promptly dispatches him into hell for all eternity. Game, set, match … heaven eternal for all who made the right choice of Christ as their Lord & Savior.

Now, I would dearly love to have the benefit of someone more knowledgeable than I to toss these ideas around with, but again, we are in short supply in my area for Catholics who actually know what is in their bibles. And when I have tried to engage 2 priests and 1 nun in conversation of this kind, I got a polite reminder of the Church’s position - preterism - and a lack of any enthusiasm to engage the topic in any other light.

I am sincerely struggling to be accurate in my reading of scripture, but can only seem to find non-Catholics who know anything about this. So, if there are Catholics out there who are well-versed and conversant in these topics I’d love to hear from you.

RSVP at will …

Many thanks, brothers and sisters in Christ … and God bless you.

I FOR ONE AGREE WITH YOU:
I’ve studied Bible prophesy for over 20 years and I continue to see the direction we’re going and it is not a blessing but scary.
I too was taught in gradeschool The apocalypse/revelation by Sisters of St Basil. And 50 years later I still remember some things they taught that at that time was impossible and shocking but now common place; for example I remember:

1. parents will kill their children and children will kill their parents - and that will be acceptable by civil law
2. at a time of increased knowledge, that there will be a computer in every home. the whole world will be able to see Jesus return all at once.

And for me too, once in high school (Roman Catholic) nothing on the end times was taught. So I searched on my own. I can’t understand why there is so much on end times in the bible but that is not taught. Then I thought that maybe it wasn’t taught because they didnt understand it themselves.

Then too the Marian apparitions are all about prayers, sacrifice, fasting and preparation for what is to come, returning to God. I do not seek dates but Mary is warning us that time is very close. (I know someone will say that some Marian apparitions are not approved by the church, but they are not disapproved either).

I personally feel that it is a great dis-service to not teach ALL of the bible, as all of it is from God. It is the Holy Spirit who enlightens you when you study the bible. As I said, I’m not setting dates, but Whether it is in hopes of Rapture, whether it is the Chastisement, or whether I die a natural death I am constantly striving to prepare my soul and to be of service to others.

When I talk with others about this subject, they usually just reject the whole idea and all I can say is: What if I am right?

 

[Weissflog]

Has anyone on this thread checked out what the Catechism says about the end times?

The following are excerpts from the Catechism of the Catholic Church, its official teaching document:

“Though already present in his Church, Christ’s reign is nevertheless yet to be fulfilled with power and great glory by the king’s return to earth. (Lk 21:27, Mt 25:31) This reign is still under attack by the evil powers, even though they have been defeated definitively by Christ’s Passover.” (2 Thess 2:7) …

“According to the Lord, the present time is the time of the Spirit and of witness, but also a time still marked by distress and the trial of evil which does not spare the Church and ushers in the struggles of the last days. It is a time of waiting and watching.” (Acts 1:8, 1 Cor 7:26, Eph 5:16, 1 Pet 4:17, Mt 25:1, 13; Mk 13: 33-37, 1 Jn 2:18; 4:3, 1 Tim 4:1) …

“The glorious Messiah’s coming is suspended at every moment of history until his recognition by all Israel, for a hardening has come upon part of Israel in their unbelief toward Jesus.” (Rom 11:20-26; Mt 23:39) “… St. Paul echoes him: For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the Dead?” (Rom 11:15)

“Before Christ’s second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers. (Lk 18:8, Mt 24:12) The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth (Lk 21:12, Jn 15:19-20) will unveil the “mystery of iniquity” in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah… (2 Thess 2:4-12, 1 Thess 5:2-3, 2 Jn 7;1 Jn2:18,22) The Church will enter the glory of the kingdom only through this final Passover, when she will follow her Lord in his death and Resurrection. (Rev 19:1-9) The kingdom will be fulfilled, then, not by a historic triumph of the Church through a progressive ascendancy, but only by God’s victory over the final unleashing of evil …. (Rev 13:8; 20:7-10; 21:2-4) God’s triumph over the revolt of evil will take the form of the Last Judgment after the final cosmic upheaval of this passing world.” Rev 20:12, 2 Pet 3:12-13

I’d like to hear the opinion of others regarding the current state of the world in relation to what it says here about the end times.

Does the existence of the Israeli State and the hatred of it set up the possibility of the first criteria to be fulfilled?

Does the decline of the Judeo-Christian World View and the rise of the (New Age) Secular Humanist World View potentially fulfill the second criteria?

Throughout the Christian era, has there ever been a time when the fulfillment of both criteria were possible"

Look forward to your thoughts!

 

[Halyna]

I’ve read many of your posts and respect your opinion. I’m glad to read that you feel this way. What do you say to those who say we can’t “know the day or hour” the end will occur BUT cite all the recent earthquakes (here and abroad), hurricanes, wars and other things happening as “signs” the end is near?

EXACTLY: no one knows the date or the hour, only God the Father knows,but look at the signs and know the time is near.

 

[ryanoneil]

Has anyone on this thread checked out what the Catechism says about the end times?

The following are excerpts from the Catechism of the Catholic Church, its official teaching document:

“Though already present in his Church, Christ’s reign is nevertheless yet to be fulfilled with power and great glory by the king’s return to earth. (Lk 21:27, Mt 25:31) This reign is still under attack by the evil powers, even though they have been defeated definitively by Christ’s Passover.” (2 Thess 2:7) …

“According to the Lord, the present time is the time of the Spirit and of witness, but also a time still marked by distress and the trial of evil which does not spare the Church and ushers in the struggles of the last days. It is a time of waiting and watching.” (Acts 1:8, 1 Cor 7:26, Eph 5:16, 1 Pet 4:17, Mt 25:1, 13; Mk 13: 33-37, 1 Jn 2:18; 4:3, 1 Tim 4:1) …

“The glorious Messiah’s coming is suspended at every moment of history until his recognition by all Israel, for a hardening has come upon part of Israel in their unbelief toward Jesus.” (Rom 11:20-26; Mt 23:39) “… St. Paul echoes him: For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the Dead?” (Rom 11:15)

“Before Christ’s second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers. (Lk 18:8, Mt 24:12) The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth (Lk 21:12, Jn 15:19-20) will unveil the “mystery of iniquity” in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah… (2 Thess 2:4-12, 1 Thess 5:2-3, 2 Jn 7;1 Jn2:18,22) The Church will enter the glory of the kingdom only through this final Passover, when she will follow her Lord in his death and Resurrection. (Rev 19:1-9) The kingdom will be fulfilled, then, not by a historic triumph of the Church through a progressive ascendancy, but only by God’s victory over the final unleashing of evil …. (Rev 13:8; 20:7-10; 21:2-4) God’s triumph over the revolt of evil will take the form of the Last Judgment after the final cosmic upheaval of this passing world.” Rev 20:12, 2 Pet 3:12-13

I’d like to hear the opinion of others regarding the current state of the world in relation to what it says here about the end times.

Does the existence of the Israeli State and the hatred of it set up the possibility of the first criteria to be fulfilled?

Does the decline of the Judeo-Christian World View and the rise of the (New Age) Secular Humanist World View potentially fulfill the second criteria?

Throughout the Christian era, has there ever been a time when the fulfillment of both criteria were possible"

Look forward to your thoughts!

676 “The Antichrist’s deception already begins to take shape in the world every time the claim is made to realize within history that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history through the eschatological judgement. The Church has rejected even modified forms of this falsification of the kingdom to come under the name of millenarianism, especially the “intrinsically perverse” political form of a secular messianism.”​

If I’m not mistaken, the “intrinsically perverse political form of a secular messianism” refers to Bolshevik communism.

 

[Weissflog]

If I’m not mistaken, the “intrinsically perverse political form of a secular messianism” refers to Bolshevik communism.

I would agree that Bolshevik communism is one form. Fascism, socialism and, today’s, humanism are others. Any “ism” that sprouts from the seeds of Marx would definitely qualify. Perhaps there are others as well.

 

[AmazingLove]

Thank you for your insights guys!

 

[JulsforJesus]

Study the apparitions of Mary approved by the Catholic Church and you will find many answers about end times prophesies from Medjugorje (can’t be approved yet because it is still happening) Fatima, etc.

Our Lady of Fatima stressed the need for individual souls to stop sinning and return to God, as God is being grievously offended and countless souls are falling into hell because of their sins. Our Lady of Fatima stressed the need for prayer, sacrifice and penance – the penance of each person fulfilling his or her daily duty well, obeying God’s laws, avoiding the near occasions of sin and acting in accordance with His will in all things. ~ Fatima.org

The most important messages of these apparitions are to turn back to Jesus, repent for your sins, pray and have your hearts ready. Jesus said the same thing. Have your heart ready for you don’t know the time or the place, only the Father in heaven knows.

Rejoice in the Lord, always!!!

 

[David]

I believe this is when we will be raised up, or if you prefer to call it "the rapture. It will be on the last day. I believe the verses that some use to promote the rapture, are all referring to the second and last coming. The next coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, will be on the “last day”.

53 So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; 54 he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.

Peace to all
David