Essence and Energies distinction?

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I keep hearing about this controversy, and that the two understandings (Latin and Greek) are irreconcilable. What exactly is this distinction? How is it considered to be different from the East and West? How have some people, such as Michael Liccione, reconciled these two understandings? Being Latin, am I not allowed to hold to believe in Hesychasm? I know that many saints recognized by the Church were hesychasts, including St.'s Diadochos, Maximos, John Climacus, and Gregory Palamas. Thanks.
 
I keep hearing about this controversy, and that the two understandings (Latin and Greek) are irreconcilable. What exactly is this distinction? How is it considered to be different from the East and West? How have some people, such as Michael Liccione, reconciled these two understandings? Being Latin, am I not allowed to hold to believe in Hesychasm? I know that many saints recognized by the Church were hesychasts, including St.'s Diadochos, Maximos, John Climacus, and Gregory Palamas. Thanks.
Now that’s interesting. I have no idea, so I’ll just sit and watch 🙂
 
I keep hearing about this controversy, and that the two understandings (Latin and Greek) are irreconcilable. What exactly is this distinction? How is it considered to be different from the East and West? How have some people, such as Michael Liccione, reconciled these two understandings? Being Latin, am I not allowed to hold to believe in Hesychasm? I know that many saints recognized by the Church were hesychasts, including St.'s Diadochos, Maximos, John Climacus, and Gregory Palamas. Thanks.
First off, what controversy? As far as I know the East and West see Gods essence and energies the same. What distinction are you referring to? Who is Michael Liccione? I dont understand why as a Latin you would not be permitted to practice hysachasm, as even Eastern Catholics do.

Looks like youve got me stumped. 🤷
 
First off, what controversy? As far as I know the East and West see Gods essence and energies the same. What distinction are you referring to? Who is Michael Liccione? I dont understand why as a Latin you would not be permitted to practice hysachasm, as even Eastern Catholics do.

Looks like youve got me stumped. 🤷
Well, there was a big controversy of Hesychasm vs Scholasticism. The Hesychasts thought that God’s Energies and Essence are separate, whereas the Scholastics thought that they were the same. I’m not really sure who Michael Liccione is, I just heard somewhere that he found a way to reconcile the two understandings. I’m trying to understand what the distinctions are, and whether they are a misunderstanding of terms or they refer to different things that are not contradictory. I’m a big Thomist myself, but the Eastern approach to prayer and practice is grabbing my interest.
 
Well, there was a big controversy of Hesychasm vs Scholasticism. The Hesychasts thought that God’s Energies and Essence are separate, whereas the Scholastics thought that they were the same. I’m not really sure who Michael Liccione is, I just heard somewhere that he found a way to reconcile the two understandings. I’m trying to understand what the distinctions are, and whether they are a misunderstanding of terms or they refer to different things that are not contradictory. I’m a big Thomist myself, but the Eastern approach to prayer and practice is grabbing my interest.
Must the church accept one and reject the other? Dont we allow both in the Catholic church, one for the Byzantines and one for the Latins? or are the Byzantines forced to accept the Latin understanding?
 
The “debate” is, in my opinion (and I’ve devoted a LOT of time to studying this topic), a mountain out of a molehile. Long story short, both East and West have always spoken of the Essence and Energies of God (Energy is translated into Western theological use as “activity” or “operations”). Prior to the Schism there was really no division on this issue; that came with theological developments in the Byzantine East with St. Gregory Palamas and his debate with a theologian called Barlaam (in the 14th century).

Their disagreement was basically this: if we can’t comprehend the Essence of God, but we can experience His Energies, how are these two things related? Barlaam argued that the two are distinct, and therefore we can’t have a direct experience of God. St. Gregory Palamas argued that they are distinct but they are both Divine, and so we have a direct experience of God through the Energy, but not through the unknowable Essence. Barlaam countered that this would make two Gods, and Palamas responded that Barlaam’s solution runs against Scripture and Tradition, since the Apostolic teaching is that we become direct participants in the Divine Nature through Grace. Barlaam, denying that the Energy could be God, also denied direct participation in Divinity (at least that’s how Palamas presents his argument; we only really know of Barlaam’s beliefs through the writings of his opponent).

In the West this debate quite simply never came up, or rather the sharing of Divinity with humanity was approached from a different angle (with the Protestant Reformation). The fact that humans can’t comprehend the infinite Divine Essence was resolved by simply pointing out that “knowing” is not the same as “comprehending”, much the way that I can know about the Sun without comprehending nuclear physics. With that distinction in place, there really wasn’t any need argue over the distinction between Essence and Energies, since the Divine Energy in this case is simply the direct operation of the Divine Essence (this manner of speaking of Essence and Energies also fits with the teachings of great Eastern Fathers like St. John of Damascus, but so does St. Gregory Palamas’ answer). In Western theology, saying that we experience the Divine Energy, but not the Divine Essence, is simply translated as “we experience the action of the Divine Essence without comprehending It”.

Kept within their own theological frameworks there’s really no contradiction between the two traditions. The problem comes when they encountered eachother without much effort at proper translation (a common problem you’ll find again and again between Apostolic traditions, going back to the Council of Ephesus at least). Remember, the Byzantine tradition (with St. Gregory Palamas) takes it as a given that we can’t comprehend the Divine Essence, and builds from there without making a distinction between “knowing” and “comprehending” the way the West did. Furthermore, there is no “partial sharing” of Essence in this system the way there is in Western theology (in the West it would be called “participation in the Divine Essence”); it’s all or nothing, since the Essence is what fundamentally defines a thing. The West gets around this by pointing out that “essential properties” can be shared without the essences themselves changing (basically, the West uses a less strict definition of Essence, broadened to include essential properties and not merely the “pure definition”). In the East, the “essential properties” get folded into energy instead, and essence is kept as the “simple definition”. Neither approach is right or wrong, so long as they are both internally consistant, and they are.

So along comes the West saying “we share in the Divine Essence through Grace”, and the East hears this as “we become Persons of the Trinity through Grace”. From the other side, the East comes along saying “we can’t share in the Divine Essence, but only the Divine Energy (activity/operation)”. The West sounds, to the East, like it’s proposing the disolution of the self into the Godhead, and the East sounds, to the West, like its denying any real participation in Divinity. The irony, of course, is that both sides are actually saying the exact opposite from what they’re being heard to say.

Sometimes you will see this confusion compounded by the fact that the West uses the term “created Grace” to refer to our participation in divinity, the same terminology that Barlaam used to indicate that we DON’T share in Divinity through Grace (he used it to indicate a firm and sharp distinction between creature and Creator that could not be bridged in any way, not even by participation). In Western theology this term is used to indicate that our sharing in Divinity is something created (i.e. that our participation is created new, but what we participate in is not), not something eternal per se (in other words, we come into the Life of Grace, and are not born as extensions of Divinity in some kind of pantheism, like in Hinduism). The West drew this language from Scripture: “we are made new creatures in Christ Jesus”. The West was emphatically NOT saying what Barlaam is claimed to have said, but it uses the same terminology and that gets in the way when not properly understood.

That’s a brief overview, and I hope it helps! BTW, both approaches of theology are endorsed by the Catholic Church, so long as they are properly understood.

Peace and God bless!
 
Must the church accept one and reject the other? Dont we allow both in the Catholic church, one for the Byzantines and one for the Latins? or are the Byzantines forced to accept the Latin understanding?
I never said that. However, we can’t have two contradictory understandings. But if they are not contradictory and just place different emphases, then that’s great.
 
Oh my goodness, Ghosty, that was by far the best and clearest explanation of essence/energy that I have ever, ever read. Thank you so much. This particular issue (East v. West on the essence and energies of God) had confunded me for years. No longer. 👍
 
Ghosty gave a good answer. Just to add. It begins with the Chalcedonian description of of the Trinity, and the monothelite heresy addressed in the 6th ecumenical council.
 
Yes, indeed, a most excellent response and summary, Ghosty. As the Union of Brest reminds us (referring to the* Filioque *but which could easily be applied here), “which greatly impede unity really for no other reason than that we do not wish to understand one another”. And even some important Orthodox personages such as St. Peter Mohyla saw no inherent contradictions between the Eastern and Western understanding, as you have intimated.

Certainly within the framework you have well described the importance of the liturgical restoration of St. Gregory Palamas implemented by the Ukrainian and Melkite Greek Catholics (and approved by Rome) can also be seen for its beneficial aspects in improving this understanding and fostering unity.
 
In the West this debate quite simply never came up, or rather the sharing of Divinity with humanity was approached from a different angle (with the Protestant Reformation).
In the last couple of months I found out there was conflict between Lutherans and Calvinists over this issue alone- the incarnation and if any divine properties are given to human nature through the incarnation. Calvinists denied this (communicatio idiomatum). Some polemical Lutheran scholastics even accused the Calvinists of crypto-nestorianism (apparrently one way to easily “trap” an unwary Calvinist is to ask them if a divine person died on the cross- according to non-Reformed theology, the answer is yes since what is true of Jesus Christ in his humanity is also true in his divinity). If this is true, it explains Calvinisms disinterest in metaphysical implications of the Incarnation and partially explains the iconclasm that always accompanied early Reformed teachings (some of it was also due to seeing much of medieval Catholic piety as oppressive “works”, a generally hostility to clericalism, etc.).

My understanding of the differences between Eastern and Western theology comes down to the Wests acceptance of deductive reasoning, dialectic, and rigorism. The Reformation rejected the rigorism and Aristotilian metaphysics but did not reject the Scholastic emphasis on deduction necessarily (especially Calvinism, which is a highly rationalistic theological system).
 
In the last couple of months I found out there was conflict between Lutherans and Calvinists over this issue alone- the incarnation and if any divine properties are given to human nature through the incarnation. Calvinists denied this (communicatio idiomatum). Some polemical Lutheran scholastics even accused the Calvinists of crypto-nestorianism (apparrently one way to easily “trap” an unwary Calvinist is to ask them if a divine person died on the cross- according to non-Reformed theology, the answer is yes since what is true of Jesus Christ in his humanity is also true in his divinity). If this is true, it explains Calvinisms disinterest in metaphysical implications of the Incarnation and partially explains the iconclasm that always accompanied early Reformed teachings (some of it was also due to seeing much of medieval Catholic piety as oppressive “works”, a generally hostility to clericalism, etc.).

My understanding of the differences between Eastern and Western theology comes down to the Wests acceptance of deductive reasoning, dialectic, and rigorism. The Reformation rejected the rigorism and Aristotilian metaphysics but did not reject the Scholastic emphasis on deduction necessarily (especially Calvinism, which is a highly rationalistic theological system).
This is a good point. The essence/energy distinction is essentially what is denied by the protestants in their denial of the sacraments and of iconography. There can be no Grace recieved through sacraments and presence of God in the icons or in nature. Deification means nothing to them.

As far as I can see, the theology of Gregory Palamas - with the essence/energy - distinction is the fullness of Byzantine theology. All of Byzantine theology is Christologically centered. Even when you discuss the saints, iconography, and the sacraments it is still essentially a Christological question. During the iconoclastic controversy those who supported the icons argued that the iconoclasts were essentially Arians or Nestorians because they denied the presence of God in them. The icon is a window to the divine. The same type of arguement could be exploited for the sake of the sacraments or the saints. This theology is explained with the essence/energy distinction. The created realm has the opportunity to participate in the energies of God, but not the essence. This participation proceeds from the Incarnation in which the humanity of Christ was penetrated by the divine energies and was completely divinized. This is our hope as Christians, theosis.

I would say that the essence/energy distinction is one of the major differences between the EO and the CC. It seems that every aspect of Orthodox theology is penetrated by the concept. Another big difference is the western distinction between theology and spirituality. In the EO tradition theology is knowledge of God obtained through prayer and ascetical practice, so there can be no absolute distinction between theology and spirituality. The purpose of doctrine is associated with the spiritual life. There is no need for definitions that will not be guides in the spiritual life. Whereas in the west knowledge of concepts is more important. The west is more into the definition of dogmas like the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption. So in the west there is development of doctrine, whereas in the east dogmas are declared only when there is a serious error that is attacking the Church.
 
This is a good point. The essence/energy distinction is essentially what is denied by the protestants in their denial of the sacraments and of iconography. There can be no Grace recieved through sacraments and presence of God in the icons or in nature. Deification means nothing to them…
That’s generally true for Calvinists and Anabaptists, but not so true for Lutherans or Anglicans. Some Anglicans, and a few Lutherans, sometimes do venerate religious images in a similar manner to the Orthodox or Catholics (crucifixies especially, but also sometimes icons).
 
The issue of the Divine Energy and Icons shouldn’t be pushed too far. The notion that the Divine Nature (not just Essence) is present in Icons is directly contradicted by the Seventh Ecumenical Council. The Divine Nature operates through Icons, and Icons are to receive the same veneration accorded to images of the cross/crucifix, and books of Scripture.

I’ve seen some Eastern Orthodox and Catholics push the issue of Icons well beyond the point allowed by the Seventh Ecumenical Council, and I’ve yet to see any justification for the idea that the Divine Nature, via the Divine Energy, is present in Icons.

It’s a bit off topic, but it does relate to the discussion of Divine Energy, since some will say that Icons are almost a vessel of the Divine Energy (which is also the Divine Nature), and that goes against the teaching of the Seven Councils.

Peace and God bless!
 
The issue of the Divine Energy and Icons shouldn’t be pushed too far. The notion that the Divine Nature (not just Essence) is present in Icons is directly contradicted by the Seventh Ecumenical Council. The Divine Nature operates through Icons, and Icons are to receive the same veneration accorded to images of the cross/crucifix, and books of Scripture.

I’ve seen some Eastern Orthodox and Catholics push the issue of Icons well beyond the point allowed by the Seventh Ecumenical Council, and I’ve yet to see any justification for the idea that the Divine Nature, via the Divine Energy, is present in Icons.

It’s a bit off topic, but it does relate to the discussion of Divine Energy, since some will say that Icons are almost a vessel of the Divine Energy (which is also the Divine Nature), and that goes against the teaching of the Seven Councils.

Peace and God bless!
The whole of creation is a vessel of the divine energies according to Byzantine theology. The icons are an expression of that.
 
The whole of creation is a vessel of the divine energies according to Byzantine theology. The icons are an expression of that.
Obviously the Divine Nature is at work everywhere (Divine Energy), but it is absolutely wrong to say that the Divine Nature is present in all things in a manner that creatures are themselves the presence of the Divine Nature. Were that the case then adoration (to use the Western terminology) would be due to Icons (and everything else), and that is utterly rejected by the Seventh Ecumenical Council. Furthermore, Icons are given a special place of veneration that goes beyond that of, say, a twig or a stone, indicating that there is indeed a difference in how the Divine Nature operates and is present in different creatures.

This is one area where the Byzantine theological tradition does have a weakness in explanation: in emphasizing the Divine Nature being absolutely identified with the Divine Energy, it can run the risk of blurring the lines between the Divine and creature that the Seventh Ecumenical Council clearly established. This isn’t to say that Byzantine theology does this necessarily, only that the propensity for this error is there without careful consideration of terms and how they’re being used. Every tradition has these kinds of weaknesses, which is why they must balance eachother out. Unfortunately this particular notion of Divine presence often seems to be carried too far in modern discussions, especially online.

Peace and God bless!
 
This is all very informative. All I know is that I know nothing. How much I have to learn! Thanks.
 
The whole of creation is a vessel of the divine energies according to Byzantine theology. The icons are an expression of that.
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"manifestation" my be a better word, if though a little extreme.  They are revelations, "written" in  eastern theology, so that places them at another level.
It is the created grace issue vs theosis and how it is understood that is the problem. imo, the RC and EO are closer to each other than apart on this issue. The real problem comes when some extrapolate parts Latin theology and take it way too far. It is a complicated issue, but here is the proverbial example.
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You are saved, but sanctification is "separate" according to many.   In the east, theosis "dictates" that they are not seperate.  If you are truly "saved", it would be evident by the transformation manifested in yourself.
The quagmire is ultimately, imo, not so much the definitions of grace, energies, natures ect, but more so: How does one receive/participate of the grace of God. Accusations of “works” based theology come into play against both the EO and RC.

You have to keep in mind that the “energies” sustain everything created, that includes everything: hell, demons, both/all realms, spiritual and physical.
 
The quagmire is ultimately, imo, not so much the definitions of grace, energies, natures ect, but more so: How does one receive/participate of the grace of God. Accusations of “works” based theology come into play against both the EO and RC. .
Yes, the sense that grace is somehow earned, hence the Reformation, reacting to this idea that God can be propitiated. Of course, monergism has its own issues, the clarity “sola fide” brings can also easily cause distortions. In Protestant theology, repentence is something that happens to you in response to God’s grace causing the believer to be secure in faith, not something you cause. There are certainly things that are congruent though with receiving that grace.

Imputed righteousness etc can create a phoney idea of how God operates. I think smarter theologians realize there are problems with trying to take this forensic stuff too far (J.I. Packer, an Anglican theologian in the Reformed tradition), as a mechanical explanation (as oppossed to kerygmatic explanation). Sanctification seems like something most Christians can easily agree upon, and that it happens becaues of grace operating through a person, but justification is the harder area to reconcile. If one emphasizes a continual sanctification more than immediate judgement, I think the issue of justification becomes less important, justification is more a pastoral issue. But most Protestants tend not to think about that, the issue is more “where do you go when you die?”.
 
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