ESV-Catholic Edition out now

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What are your thoughts on this newly-released ESV-Catholic Edition? Personally, the Protestant Edition is a very good improvement over the RSV (there are issues here and there [see I Tim 3:15 ESV]), and it would be a great help in apologetics if we have this in Catholic Edition.

Much like the New Living Translation Catholic Edition, this edition is the work of the Indian Bishops.

Thoughts?

(Remove the * for the link)
Shop Link: http://atcbooks.in/product/holy-bible-esv-catholic-edition/
News Link: http://www.daijiworld.com/news/newsDisplay.aspx?newsID=495081
 
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I also like the RSV-CE 2nd Edition. NRSV, not so much. Maybe I prefer the RSV literal style (the NRSV drifts away from the Greek Structure sometimes, and yes, the issues with inclusive language).

ESV, in my opinion, has the better grammar than the RSV
 
gimper09 said:
What are your thoughts on this newly-released ESV-Catholic Edition?
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Is it published by Crossway, which publishes all the other ESV Bibles? There doesn’t seem to be any Catholic Bible listed on the Crossway website:

www.crossway.org

Crossway

Crossway is a not-for-profit Christian ministry that publishes the ESV Bible and gospel-centered books.
www.crossway.org www.crossway.org
 
Indeed, but I based on the news, it should be out soon.

Or there might be the possibility that Crossway merely “authorized” the Catholic edition without being directly involved in it. As far as I know, it’s primarily the work of the Indian Bishops.
 
Each Bishops’ Conference will list their approved translations. For the US we have:

http://www.usccb.org/bible/approved-translations/

USCCB Approved Translations of the Sacred Scriptures for Private Use and Study by Catholics
1983 - Present

The 1983 Code of Canon Law entrusts to the Apostolic See and the episcopal conferences the authority to approve translations of the Sacred Scriptures in the Latin Catholic Church (c. 825, §1). Prior to 1983, Scriptural translations could be approved by the Apostolic See or by a local ordinary within a diocese.

What follows is a complete list of the translations of the Sacred Scriptures that have received the approval of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops since 1983.

In addition to the translations listed below, any translation of the Sacred Scriptures that has received proper ecclesiastical approval ‒ namely, by the Apostolic See or a local ordinary prior to 1983, or by the Apostolic See or an episcopal conference following 1983 ‒ may be used by the Catholic faithful for private prayer and study.

Books of the New Testament, Alba House

Contemporary English Version - New Testament, First Edition, American Bible Society

Contemporary English Version - Book of Psalms, American Bible Society

Contemporary English Version - Book of Proverbs, American Bible Society

The Grail Psalter (Inclusive Language Version), G.I.A. Publications

New American Bible, Revised Edition (NABRE)

New Revised Standard Version, Catholic Edition, National Council of Churches

The Psalms, Alba House

The Psalms (New International Version) - St. Joseph Catholic Edition, Catholic Book Publishing Company

The Psalms - St. Joseph New Catholic Version, Catholic Book Publishing Company

Revised Psalms of the New American Bible (1991)

So You May Believe, A Translation of the Four Gospels, Alba House

Good News Translation (Today’s English Version, Second Edition), American Bible Society

Translation for Early Youth, A Translation of the New Testament for Children, Contemporary English Version, American Bible Society
 
TheLittleLady said:
Each Bishops’ Conference will list their approved translations. For the US we have:

http://www.usccb.org/bible/approved-translations/

USCCB Approved Translations of the Sacred Scriptures for Private Use and Study by Catholics
1983 - Present

The 1983 Code of Canon Law entrusts to the Apostolic See and the episcopal conferences the authority to approve translations of the Sacred Scriptures in the Latin Catholic Church (c. 825, §1). Prior to 1983, Scriptural translations could be approved by the Apostolic See or by a local ordinary within a diocese.

What follows is a complete list of the translations of the Sacred Scriptures that have received the approval of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops since 1983.

In addition to the translations listed below, any translation of the Sacred Scriptures that has received proper ecclesiastical approval ‒ namely, by the Apostolic See or a local ordinary prior to 1983, or by the Apostolic See or an episcopal conference following 1983 ‒ may be used by the Catholic faithful for private prayer and study.

Books of the New Testament, Alba House

Contemporary English Version - New Testament, First Edition, American Bible Society

Contemporary English Version - Book of Psalms, American Bible Society

Contemporary English Version - Book of Proverbs, American Bible Society

The Grail Psalter (Inclusive Language Version), G.I.A. Publications

New American Bible, Revised Edition (NABRE)

New Revised Standard Version, Catholic Edition, National Council of Churches

The Psalms, Alba House

The Psalms (New International Version) - St. Joseph Catholic Edition, Catholic Book Publishing Company

The Psalms - St. Joseph New Catholic Version, Catholic Book Publishing Company

Revised Psalms of the New American Bible (1991)

So You May Believe, A Translation of the Four Gospels, Alba House

Good News Translation (Today’s English Version, Second Edition), American Bible Society

Translation for Early Youth, A Translation of the New Testament for Children, Contemporary English Version, American Bible Society
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To be clear: we are allowed to use any Catholic Bible approved by any National Conference world wide after 1983 and we are allowed to use any Bible translation with an imprimatur before 1983.

The USCCB simply lists the translations they have approved post 1983, but we are not limited to those.

God Bless
 
porthos11 said:
it’s more of a stretch to translate the Greek that way.
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In the original Greek there’s no article at all: “… church of living God, pillar and foundation …”.
How good is your Greek? Are you sure that supplying the word “the” before “pillar” is more correct than supplying an “a”?
I can certainly understand why some Catholics would attach importance to this, and why some Protestants would as well. For me, though, I see it first and foremost as a question of grammar. I’ll go by what a Greek specialist says.
http://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_timothy/3-15.htm
 
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BartholomewB said:
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porthos11:
it’s more of a stretch to translate the Greek that way.
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In the original Greek there’s no article at all: “… church of living God, pillar and foundation …”.
How good is your Greek? Are you sure that supplying the word “the” before “pillar” is more correct than supplying an “a”?
I can certainly understand why some Catholics would attach importance to this, and why some Protestants would as well. For me, though, I see it first and foremost as a question of grammar. I’ll go by what a Greek specialist says.
1 Timothy 3:15 Interlinear: and if I delay, that thou mayest know how it behoveth thee to conduct thyself in the house of God, which is an assembly of the living God -- a pillar and foundation of the truth,
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Context would be the determinant. When the clauses are broken down, the more natural reading would be to either insert “the” before the word “pillar”, or drop it entirely. So it can read, “church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth” or “church of the living God, pillar and foundation of truth.” Between these two, using the word “the” makes more linguistic sense.

Inserting “a” does not seem to read as naturally, especially since the ESV uses the word “the” in other places in the clauses where there is no definite article either (there is no Greek defnite article before the words “household” and “church” either, and yet the ESV still gleefully inserts “the” before those words, again, simply because it’s the more natural reading. The use of the English indefinite article just sounds forced.

In this case, it’s only a tad better than the Watchtower’s mangling of John 1:1.
 
Even among popular Protestant translations, I Tim 3:15 is translated with the definite article, save for the ESV.

NIV: if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

NLT: so that if I am delayed, you will know how people must conduct themselves in the household of God. This is the church of the living God, which is the pillar and foundation of the truth.

KJV: But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

NASB: but in case I am delayed, I write so that you will know how one ought to conduct himself in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and support of the truth.

ESV: if I delay, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, a pillar and buttress of the truth.

Aside from this issue, I think the translation is fine. Especially the Old Testament, which is translated on a more Christological perspective than RSV or NRSV.
 
You’re approaching the question in terms of what sounds “natural” or “forced” in English, or what makes “more linguistic sense” in English. You haven’t said anything about Greek grammar. What would the article-free στυλος και εδραιωμα convey to a first-century Christian reading the letter over Timothy’s shoulder in Ephesus? That’s what I meant about it being first and foremost a question of grammar.
 
BartholomewB said:
You’re approaching the question in terms of what sounds “natural” or “forced” in English, or what makes “more linguistic sense” in English. You haven’t said anything about Greek grammar. What would the article-free στυλος και εδραιωμα convey to a first-century Christian reading the letter over Timothy’s shoulder in Ephesus? That’s what I meant about it being first and foremost a question of grammar.
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It’s not a question of grammar. It’s a question of translation. And I’m not talking about what “sounds” natural or “forced” in English. I’m talking about what’s a more natural or forced translation of the Greek into English. This is a passage which can be rendered at least a couple of ways in English that can be “technically” correct but we need to find a rendering that most likely fits the idea of the original text. For this particular passage, an editorial decision would need to be made, and so context matters. Using “a” makes this a forced translation. Using “the” most likely conveys the proper idea, and dropping the article altogether is questionable at best.

So to answer your question, the most likely proper rendering is the probably the one given in the KJV and the RSV.

And for us Catholics, the principle used by the RSV-CE can also come in handy: critical considerations being evenly balanced, translate in favour of the Catholic reading.
 
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I’m pretty much in agreement, by and large, with everything you’ve said about the stylistic choices facing the translators of the NT. But we knew all that already. I posted a link to the Bible Hub page where we can all see for ourselves that only two of the translations, the ESV and Young’s, opt for the indefinite article while all the other twenty-something translations use the definite article. I have no difficulty with reading what’s written in English. The language I don’t know is Greek, which is why I need to ask a question about Greek grammar.
 
@(name removed by moderator) you have links to two Bibles I have been contemplating of buying -
the Catholic Scripture Study Bible and the Spiritual Warfare Bible. Do you like them both or one more than the other. Could you tell me about them and what you like about them? Thank you.
 
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@(name removed by moderator) Thanks for your feedback.
I don’t have the manual on Spiritual Warfare. I think the Catholic Scripture Study Bible sounds like a good Bible to have in my collection. I agree the commentary is important. I will wait on the Spiritual Warfare Bible I think.
Thanks again.
 
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