Eternal progression in Mormonism?

[adamhovey1988]

So it is my understanding although I may be incorrect and pardon me if I am, that Mormons believe that God the Father is eternally getting wiser? How in the world is this possible? What exactly do Mormons believe with regards to this? Because I don’t want to be misrepresenting anyone’s beliefs because I hate it when people do with mine. If some Mormons or former Mormons would like to explain it to me I would really appreciate it. Thank you.

 

[jane_doe]

So it is my understanding although I may be incorrect and pardon me if I am, that Mormons believe that God the Father is eternally getting wiser? How in the world is this possible? What exactly do Mormons believe with regards to this? Because I don’t want to be misrepresenting anyone’s beliefs because I hate it when people do with mine. If some Mormons or former Mormons would like to explain it to me I would really appreciate it. Thank you.

For talking about us, I recommend this official LDS essay: lds.org/topics/becoming-like-god?lang=eng

As to talking about the Father and His progression: the Father does not increase in knowledge (He’s already got it all), but does increase in glory through us. (He has it 100% of glory now, but as His glorious kingdom grows there is more glory)

 

[Truth_Faith13]

So it is my understanding although I may be incorrect and pardon me if I am, that Mormons believe that God the Father is eternally getting wiser? How in the world is this possible? What exactly do Mormons believe with regards to this? Because I don’t want to be misrepresenting anyone’s beliefs because I hate it when people do with mine. If some Mormons or former Mormons would like to explain it to me I would really appreciate it. Thank you.

I’m ex Mormon and I’ll be honest I didn’t stay long enough to fully understand the doctrines and what I did, I now can’t remember.

What I will say is that the best way to learn about what LDS believe is through their own websites or their standard works (Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants and Pearl of Great Price)

The reason I say this is LDS can give a varied response on what the church as a whole believes. I have a couple of LDS I know which are experienced that I trust to give me correct information however I’m not sure about others.

I’ve read a post on another site where an LDS believed God is growing in knowledge but I don’t think that’s what the church teaches.

 

[adamhovey1988]

I’m ex Mormon and I’ll be honest I didn’t stay long enough to fully understand the doctrines and what I did, I now can’t remember.

What I will say is that the best way to learn about what LDS believe is through their own websites or their standard works (Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants and Pearl of Great Price)

The reason I say this is LDS can give a varied response on what the church as a whole believes. I have a couple of LDS I know which are experienced that I trust to give me correct information however I’m not sure about others.

I’ve read a post on another site where an LDS believed God is growing in knowledge but I don’t think that’s what the church teaches.

I try to do a lot of research on Mormonism but I also try to do it from a historical perspective because I like to be objective. I would love to engage in dialogue with Mormon but out here in rural areas have a lot more Jehovah’s Witnesses. I do know the LDS church believes in continuing Revelation though so I think this is an important factor in how or what they believe about God

 

[jane_doe]

I try to do a lot of research on Mormonism but I also try to do it from a historical perspective because I like to be objective. I would love to engage in dialogue with Mormon but out here in rural areas have a lot more Jehovah’s Witnesses. I do know the LDS church believes in continuing Revelation though so I think this is an important factor in how or what they believe about God

General tips about talking/debating with Mormons–

1. You are 100% right about continuing revelation big factor is how LDS view theology in general. There’s also a whole suite of topics Mormons believe we don’t know much about at this time (progression of the Father is one of them).
2. Continuing off that, Mormonism is not a religion/culture which mandates all theological details be hammer exactly out, so different Mormons are 100% ok having different views on things.
3. Mormon culture also generally looks disfavorably on arguing theology, particularly in a lawyer-ing fashion, so if you’re looking for “debate” that way, it’s going to be harder to find a Mormon who’s into that
4. Similarly, fancy essays on theology are not viewed as the principle way of learning about God. Rather Mormon culture favors simply prayer, scripture reading, and doing as Christ does as the best way to get to know Him. That’s not to say that you can’t find fancy essays on Mormonism (because there are Mormons that think that way), but it’s not the center of things.
5. Mormon missionaries who come knocking on your doors: these are not fancy trained theologians! Rather, they are ~19 year old kids doing there best to teach the basics of the Gospel as Mormons view it.
6. If you want to talk to run of the mill Mormons and see how their faith effects their lives, just showing up at the local meetinghouse Sunday mornings is a pretty straight shot methods.
7. If you want to talk to Mormons of a more scholarly bent, particularly those which have past expense with inter-faith dialogue, on-line forums honestly isn’t a bad way to go about it (there’s a couple Mormons on here, there’s Mormon specific forums, generic inter-faith forums, etc).

 

[gazelam]

So it is my understanding although I may be incorrect and pardon me if I am, that Mormons believe that God the Father is eternally getting wiser? How in the world is this possible? What exactly do Mormons believe with regards to this? Because I don’t want to be misrepresenting anyone’s beliefs because I hate it when people do with mine. If some Mormons or former Mormons would like to explain it to me I would really appreciate it. Thank you.

The Encyclopedia of Mormonism has an entry on the topic here: eom.byu.edu/index.php/Eternal_Progression

 

[RebeccaJ]

So it is my understanding although I may be incorrect and pardon me if I am, that Mormons believe that God the Father is eternally getting wiser? How in the world is this possible? What exactly do Mormons believe with regards to this? Because I don’t want to be misrepresenting anyone’s beliefs because I hate it when people do with mine. If some Mormons or former Mormons would like to explain it to me I would really appreciate it. Thank you.

Depends on the Mormon you ask. Brigham Young and Wilford Woodruff taught that the Mormon Heavenly Father increases in knowledge, forever.

Joseph Fielding Smith and later taught that God is omnipotent.

I also recall reading a belief that God started out progressing in knowledge but eventually came to have a power of omnipotence.

Which gets to, how can this be. Christian doctrine is that an attribute of who God is, is omnipotent. God could not be omnipotent anymore than humans could be omnipotent.

Omnipotence for the Mormon God is a power that is possessed. Not an attribute of God’s being.

 

[lax16]

General tips about talking/debating with Mormons–

1. You are 100% right about continuing revelation big factor is how LDS view theology in general. There’s also a whole suite of topics Mormons believe we don’t know much about at this time (progression of the Father is one of them).

What do you mean by “progression of the Father”?

 

[jane_doe]

jane_doe;13763398:

General tips about talking/debating with Mormons–

1. You are 100% right about continuing revelation big factor is how LDS view theology in general. There’s also a whole suite of topics Mormons believe we don’t know much about at this time (progression of the Father is one of them).

What do you mean by “progression of the Father”?

What the OP asked about.

 

[lax16]

lax16;13765766:

What the OP asked about.

The OP asked if God is getting wiser and you said no.

Then you said there is much we don’t know about things, such as the progression of the Father. What do you mean by that?

 

[adamhovey1988]

jane_doe;13765770:

The OP asked if God is getting wiser and you said no.

Then you said there is much we don’t know about things, such as the progression of the Father. What do you mean by that?

What exactly is the progression of the father? I’m confused

 

[jane_doe]

lax16;13765786:

What exactly is the progression of the father? I’m confused

Nothing you need to worry about.

 

[lax16]

adamhovey1988;13765791:

Nothing you need to worry about.

Isn’t the truth of Mormonism meant for all?

 

[adamhovey1988]

jane_doe;13765794:

Isn’t the truth of Mormonism meant for all?

Okay I asked a question that I thought Mormons might be able to answer it was what I thought a fair question. Since Mormonism has continuing Revelation I would think that it would be an easy question to answer. I fail to see how someone can evangelise answering questions about their faith. I didn’t say anything I thought was offensive apologies if I did. Lax, you think I said anything wrong? I just like to know where Mormons stand on this and what the belief is. I would like to apologise if I offended anyone

 

[LivingWaters7]

From the Encyclopedia of Mormonism:

“No official Church teaching attempts to specify all the ways in which God progresses in his exalted spheres; “there is no end to [His] works, neither to [His] words” (Moses 1:38). God’s glory and power are enhanced as his children progress in glory and power (see Moses 1:39; Young, JD 10:5). Ideas have been advanced to explain how God might progress in knowledge and still be perfect and know all things (see Foreknowledge of God; Omnipotent God; Omnipresence of God; Omniscience of God).”
eom.byu.edu/index.php/Eternal_Progression

“Gods and humans represent a single divine lineage, the same species of being, although they and he are at different stages of progress.”

"Thus, the Father became the Father at some time before “the beginning” as humans know it, by experiencing a mortality similar to that experienced on earth. There has been speculation among some Latter-day Saints on the implications of this doctrine, but nothing has been revealed to the Church about conditions before the “beginning” as mortals know it. The important points of the doctrine for Latter-day Saints are that Gods and humans are the same species of being, but at different stages of development in a divine continuum, and that the heavenly Father and Mother are the heavenly pattern, model, and example of what mortals can become through obedience to the gospel (see Mother in Heaven). "
eom.byu.edu/index.php/God_the_Father

 

[lax16]

lax16;13765798:

Okay I asked a question that I thought Mormons might be able to answer it was what I thought a fair question. Since Mormonism has continuing Revelation I would think that it would be an easy question to answer. I fail to see how someone can evangelise answering questions about their faith. I didn’t say anything I thought was offensive apologies if I did. Lax, you think I said anything wrong? I just like to know where Mormons stand on this and what the belief is. I would like to apologise if I offended anyone

Part of the confusion is that posts are being answered with the wrong posters name attached to it. I don’t know why that happened.

I believe that Jane was responding to me. I would be the lawyer-type questioner that she said Mormons don’t like.

 

[lax16]

From the Encyclopedia of Mormonism:

“No official Church teaching attempts to specify all the ways in which God progresses in his exalted spheres; “there is no end to [His] works, neither to [His] words” (Moses 1:38). God’s glory and power are enhanced as his children progress in glory and power (see Moses 1:39; Young, JD 10:5). Ideas have been advanced to explain how God might progress in knowledge and still be perfect and know all things (see Foreknowledge of God; Omnipotent God; Omnipresence of God; Omniscience of God).”
eom.byu.edu/index.php/Eternal_Progression

“Gods and humans represent a single divine lineage, the same species of being, although they and he are at different stages of progress.”

"Thus, the Father became the Father at some time before “the beginning” as humans know it, by experiencing a mortality similar to that experienced on earth. There has been speculation among some Latter-day Saints on the implications of this doctrine, but nothing has been revealed to the Church about conditions before the “beginning” as mortals know it. The important points of the doctrine for Latter-day Saints are that Gods and humans are the same species of being, but at different stages of development in a divine continuum, and that the heavenly Father and Mother are the heavenly pattern, model, and example of what mortals can become through obedience to the gospel (see Mother in Heaven). "
eom.byu.edu/index.php/God_the_Father

Add to this what the LDS manuals teach and I think this is a very complete answer:

lds.org/manual/doctrines-of-the-gospel-teacher-manual/chapter-3-god-the-eternal-father?lang=eng

lds.org/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-47-exaltation?lang=eng

 

[adamhovey1988]

From the Encyclopedia of Mormonism:

“No official Church teaching attempts to specify all the ways in which God progresses in his exalted spheres; “there is no end to [His] works, neither to [His] words” (Moses 1:38). God’s glory and power are enhanced as his children progress in glory and power (see Moses 1:39; Young, JD 10:5). Ideas have been advanced to explain how God might progress in knowledge and still be perfect and know all things (see Foreknowledge of God; Omnipotent God; Omnipresence of God; Omniscience of God).”
eom.byu.edu/index.php/Eternal_Progression

“Gods and humans represent a single divine lineage, the same species of being, although they and he are at different stages of progress.”

"Thus, the Father became the Father at some time before “the beginning” as humans know it, by experiencing a mortality similar to that experienced on earth. There has been speculation among some Latter-day Saints on the implications of this doctrine, but nothing has been revealed to the Church about conditions before the “beginning” as mortals know it. The important points of the doctrine for Latter-day Saints are that Gods and humans are the same species of being, but at different stages of development in a divine continuum, and that the heavenly Father and Mother are the heavenly pattern, model, and example of what mortals can become through obedience to the gospel (see Mother in Heaven). "
eom.byu.edu/index.php/God_the_Father

Thank you very much I appreciate it and I would like to apologise to anyone if I were being offensive

 

[jane_doe]

Thank you very much I appreciate it and I would like to apologise to anyone if I were being offensive

You weren’t being offensive, and I apologize for being short tempered (it’s been one of those days…).