Eternal Security, or OSAS is misleading

[Kitty_Chan]

In my mind, I separate primary doctrines and secondary doctrines. I believe OSAS is secondary. Whether you believe it or not does not impact salvation as long as the primary doctrines that both Catholics and Protestants (in my limited understanding) hold dear to- accepting Jesus as our Lord and Savior, trusting in Him to be our High Priest so that we can become adopted children of God.

**You are saved even if you commit the most serious sin like murder or committing abortion. **

Hi welcome to the boards, only to keep things clear Im not Catholic, have attended Baptist, Nazarene.

I can understand what you say about denominations not claiming to be the whole, as all are part of the church. Although you did say that *No denomination claims to represent the whole church of Christ (those that do are flirting with cultism). * I understand what you are saying regarding cults. But you will find the Catholics describe the Church just as you say the one. However, you cannot label it a cult however, (I have not said you did, it just follows as I read the sentence above)

There are doctrines as you say that both protestant and catholic hold the same, this cannot be said for cults. I just want to point that out, there is alot of misinformation and bad feelings between the “sides” and we really need to understand each other more. Which is what you mentioned as to why you are here as why Im here too, to learn more.

That said now, I am asking you regarding the other statement in bold. While some sin is worse than others, sin is still sin, a separation from God. If a person is saved, then commits murder, thats sin and unless they amend they will stay separated from God.

Its not that Christs blood does not cover it, but if the person needs to acknowledge what separates them from Him.

OSAS seems to be saying that because you are saved, you dont need to do anything because Christ did it all.

Which He did, but He also said Hed spit us out if we were lukewarm.

hope this is making sense

 

[JesseW]

Kitty Chan,

Yes, you are making a lot of sense. THANK YOU for pointing out the language I used involving “cults.” I really was referring only to Protestant Denominationalism. I sure don’t want Catholics thinking I am referring to them as cultists. Their doctrines simply do not qualify for cult standing.

OSAS seems to be saying that because you are saved, you dont need to do anything because Christ did it all.

That is as it appears on the surface, but OSAS denominations usually stress Paul’s letter to the church in Rome:

Romans 6:1-6

"What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace many increase? May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?..“For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, soo that we would no longer be slaves to sin.”

If we depend on Christ entirely without taking the initiative ourselves, where is the work of the Holy Spirit in our lives? “Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.”

Again, I’m not sure how I feel about the OSAS doctrine that I’ve always been taught. I still remember the shock in High School Youth Group when a visiting Nazarene expressed a different view. I didn’t know a different view was even out there!

All I know is that when I turn from God, the Holy Spirit makes me miserable. I can’t go a day or two without repenting and coming back to God on my knees. Then, my joy returns. That is the mark of salvation. When the hound of heaven won’t leave us alone to our sinful tendencies! Glory to God!

Wow, I’m long-winded. Sorry.

 

[Kitty_Chan]

Kitty Chan,

Yes, you are making a lot of sense. THANK YOU for pointing out the language I used involving “cults.” I really was referring only to Protestant Denominationalism. I sure don’t want Catholics thinking I am referring to them as cultists. Their doctrines simply do not qualify for cult standing.

no prob, something Ive discovered here, just saving you time

That is as it appears on the surface, but OSAS denominations usually stress Paul’s letter to the church in Rome:

Romans 6:1-6

"What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace many increase? May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?..“For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, soo that we would no longer be slaves to sin.”

If we depend on Christ entirely without taking the initiative ourselves, where is the work of the Holy Spirit in our lives? “Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.”

see this part I cant see any problems with but this doesnt sound like osas, thats whats confusing me at the moment. I may have missed it, but Ive not really run across this thinking other than here in these forums.

Again, I’m not sure how I feel about the OSAS doctrine that I’ve always been taught. I still remember the shock in High School Youth Group when a visiting Nazarene expressed a different view. I didn’t know a different view was even out there!

Thats interesting, I come from such a speckled background, everyones bits run around in my head so I do not know things as “catholic” or “baptist” “calvin” “luther” whatever have you. All I know is Truth is Christ and Christ is Truth, one cannot separate them.

All I know is that when I turn from God, the Holy Spirit makes me miserable. I can’t go a day or two without repenting and coming back to God on my knees. Then, my joy returns. That is the mark of salvation. When the hound of heaven won’t leave us alone to our sinful tendencies! Glory to God!

Wow, I’m long-winded. Sorry.

Aaaa Im talky to, dont sweat it. I love what you put there, echos my thoughts too. I never thought of the Holy Spirit making you miserable! interesting thought. And it explains confession nicely, you just cant “get away” with it. Some say confession by yourself leaves one to cheat, I say especially with what you just said, that you cant cheat.

 

[mikeledes]

I established a basic profile of the “fallen away” that demosntrates that they were once genuinely saved in the following thread:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=163236&page=11

God Bless,
Michael

 

[mikeledes]

The following passage should be read and understood as a unit:

Mark 9:43-49

43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched— 44 where
‘ Their worm does not die
And the fire is not quenched.’
45 And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame, rather than having two feet, to be cast into hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched— 46 where
‘ Their worm does not die
And the fire is not quenched.’
47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire— 48 where
‘ Their worm does not die
And the fire is not quenched.’
49 “For everyone will be seasoned with fire,[g] and every sacrifice will be seasoned with salt. 50 Salt is good, but if the salt loses its flavor, how will you season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace with one another.”

Compare with:

Matthew 5:13-16

**13 “You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men. **

Christians are the salt of the earth. But they can lose their “saltiness” or their flavor through sin. Tasteless salt is only worthy of being trampled under foot, which is an image of eternal damnation.

God Bless,
Michael