Eternality of Hell

[Vico]

It says both body and soul can be lost in hell, but then says it’s the soul that gets condemned. So, not so specific. Thank you though.

The person is the combination of the body and soul. The body and soul will be reunited in the person at the resurrection. That way, the damned will suffer in body also and the saints will have glorified bodies.

 

[Vico]

…Eternal damnation, body and soul… wow. Scary SCARY stuff.

Fear and tremble because God works in you to make you like him.

2 Corinthians 7

12 Wherefore, my dearly beloved, (as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only but much more now in my absence) with fear and trembling work out your salvation. 13 For it is God who worketh in you, both to will and to accomplish, according to his good will.

JW belief is in a final punishment for those who oppose God of “everlasting destruction.”

2 Thessalonians 1

9 Who shall suffer eternal punishment in destruction, from the face of the Lord and from the glory of his power:

 

[TK421]

If we inherit eternal life through Christ, and hell is the absence of God, then how can the human soul be eternally punished in hell?

In other words, how can the human soul in hell be eternal if it doesn’t possess Christ?

Thanks.

St Teresa of Avila (based on early tradition) would say that the light of God dwells in every angel and man no matter what, but for an unrepentant soul that light is covered with an opaque black cloth. The soul is dead to love, but being originally created in the image of God never changes.

Unlike souls in purgatory, the damned continue to sin after death, so as they continue to sin they continue to incur both spiritual and corporal suffering.

 

[TK421]

Free will does not end after death: it is the opposite. It is magnified and perfected to an unimaginable degree. Those who choose love on Earth become radically holy in Heaven and those who choose evil on Earth become radically evil in hell. Everything moves to its logical and ultimate conclusion, which is an extreme in one direction or another.

Free will in this life is highly imperfect because of weakness, or ignorance, or inconsistency, or doubt, or other things, but that all goes away in the hereafter. In Heaven or hell, nothing stands in between the will and reality.

 

[JohnR77]

Jehovahs witnesses are returning next week & I found out while researching them that they don’t believe in hell.

Mark 9:46 f
" … to be cast into the hell of fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not extinguished."

 

[lil_user]

Can the damned sin? According to Aquinas, yes, and they can make matters worse until the Final Judgment.

Merit and demerit belong to the state of a wayfarer, wherefore good is meritorious in them, while evil is demeritorious. In the damned, evil is not demeritorious, but is part of the punishment of damnation.

after reaching the last term there is no further movement, or advancement in good or evil.

Now the damned, especially after the judgment day, will have reached the last term of their damnation

Therefore after the judgment day the damned will not demerit by their perverse will, for if they did their damnation would be augmented.

after the day of judgment good and evil will have reached their ultimate consummation, so that there will be no further addition to good or evil. Consequently… evil will in the damned will be not a demerit but a punishment only.

some say that, before the judgment day…the damned demerit. But this cannot apply to …the principal punishment… Possibly, however, this may apply to the…secondary punishment…subject to increase until the day of judgment.

 

[lil_user]

SkippingM:

Jehovahs witnesses are returning next week & I found out while researching them that they don’t believe in hell.

Mark 9:46 f
" … to be cast into the hell of fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not extinguished."

Ah, mon ami, you forget that they have their own Bible…where Mark 9:46 is omitted with the following explanation:

Some manuscripts read here “where their maggot does not die and the fire is not put out,” but these words do not appear in important early manuscripts. Similar words do appear in verse 48, where there is no uncertainty regarding the text. Evidence suggests that a scribe or scribes repeated the words from verse 48 in verses 44 and 46.

I know you could argue that they still have verse 43:

It is better for you to enter into life maimed than to go off with two hands into Ge·henʹna, into the fire that cannot be put out.

but they also have a fitting explanation to justify their heresy:

the valley had become a place for burning refuse, so the word “Gehenna” was a fitting symbol of complete destruction

and also the following risible explanation:

Gehenna: the Greek name for the Valley of Hinnom […] There is no evidence that animals or humans were thrown into Gehenna to be burned alive or tormented. So the place could not symbolize an invisible region where human souls are tormented eternally in literal fire. Rather, Gehenna was used…to symbolize the eternal punishment of “second death,” that is, everlasting destruction, annihilation.

See? They have their own custom-made Bible and footnotes meant to justify their errors (although the footnotes are often of a childish absurdity) so there’s no winning an argument.

To be clear: most members of the Watchtower Society sincerely love the Sacred Scriptures (as they have been handed to them) and God (as they understand Him) and often display great virtue. The issue is all with the doctrines of the Society, all but Christian, that damage their understanding of God and of the Faith, lead them to an invalid Baptism, and affect their family and social life.

 

[JohnR77]

in hell.

I agree that arguing Scripture with a well trained Jehovah Witness, by that I mean with a witness who is well trained in being closed minded, is often not successful.

For them, we need to demonstrate problems with the reliability of their leaders.

Another way, is to show them reasons for the truth such as the following.

.
Does Hell Cease to Exist ? Answer : No

God has no reason to bring hell into nothingness. Those in hell have the goodness, from God, enabling their existence. Even in their suffering they still will to exist, so they can remain in their sin. It is good that they exist as their existence points to the glory of God.

From a worldly and misconstrued perspective suffering seems like the worst thing possible.
So, I can see how a person thinking from that false perspective would think Hell should cease to exist.
From the Christian perspective suffering is not the worst. Sin is the worst. Suffering, when united to Christ’s, becomes redemptive and good.

And pleasure is not the best.
Manifesting the glory of God is much better.

Therefore, it is good to exist and to be a manifestation of God’s glory, even while suffering. That is why it is good to be a Saint even while suffering martyrdom.

So, it makes sense, that in His mercy God allows them, or gives them eternal existence.

God creates.

Therefore, there is no cause for Him to un-create, or to bring to non-existence, that which He has created.

God doesn’t make mistakes.

John

(I suppose that those who really wanted know, and clicked on my link above know that I did not reference Mark 9:46 NAB.

I was making a reference to Mark 9:46 in the Douay Rheims which corresponds to Mark 9:47 in NAB as a place to begin reading, but my real emphasis was on “f” - the following verse - which is highlighted if you check it out. My ability to post from my phone, as the original was done, has severe limitations.)

 

[Vico]

Can the damned sin? According to Aquinas, yes, and they can make matters worse until the Final Judgment.
…

The particular judgment was not a dogma during the time of St. Thomas Aquinas. Note the basis of finality is judgment (from Supplement of the S.T. Q98 A6):

“and after the day of judgment good and evil will have reached their ultimate consummation, so that there will be no further addition to good or evil”

But Supplement Q88 has:

Each man is both an individual person and a part of the whole human race: wherefore a twofold judgment is due to him. One, the particular judgment, is that to which he will be subjected after death, when he will receive according as he hath done in the body [Cf. 2 Corinthians 5:10], not indeed entirely but only in part since he will receive not in the body but only in the soul. The other judgment will be passed on him as a part of the human race: thus a man is said to be judged according to human justice, even when judgment is pronounced on the community of which he is a part. Hence at the general judgment of the whole human race by the general separation of the good from the wicked, it follows that each one will be judged. And yet God will not judge “the same thing a second time,” since He will not inflict two punishments for one sin, and the punishment which before the judgment was not inflicted completely will be completed at the last judgment, after which the wicked will be tormented at the same time in body and soul.

 

[drac16]

Hell is more than separation from God. John 3:36 says that those who reject Christ will suffer the wrath of God. It’s a pretty chilling thing to think about, but it’s in the Bible and we have no right to cast something aside just because it seems uncomfortable. Hell is supernaturally more terrible than anything we could imagine, so I don’t think it’s proper to try to understand how it’s eternally bad.

We know that God has spoken, right? so let’s just embrace it and we will know the severity throughout the course of eternity. Instead, let us rejoice in the fact that we as christians are saved from it.

 

[lil_user]

I was making a reference to Mark 9:46 in the Douay Rheims which corresponds to Mark 9:47 in NAB as a place to begin reading, but my real emphasis was on “f” - the following verse - which is highlighted if you check it out. My ability to post from my phone, as the original was done, has severe limitations.)

Sorry about the confusion, but it was a good opportunity to point out the issue of the NWV Bible they use ^.^

 

[Cathoholic]

SkippingM . . .

It says both body and soul can be lost in hell, but then says it’s the soul that gets condemned. So, not so specific.

This below is a little more specific on the point you are wondering about.

.

ROMAN CATECHISM Again, as
the just and the wicked performed their good and evil actions in this life not without the cooperation of the body,
it necessarily follows that these actions belong also to the body as to their instrument.
It was, therefore, altogether suitable that
the body should share with the soul the due rewards of eternal glory or punishment.
But this can only be accomplished by means of a general resurrection and of a general judgment.

(Emphasis mine.)

Hope this answers your question SkippingM.

God bless.

Cathoholic