Etheopian Orthodox in Communion with Rome?

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TimothyH

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Is the Ethiopian Orthodox Church in full communion with Rome, that is to say, is it a rite within the Catholic Church?

Please forgive my ignorance if I have phrased the question incorrectly.

-Tim-
 
No, it is not. The Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church is not in communion with Rome, or in any sense a rite within the Roman communion.
 
There is an Ethiopian Catholic Church though that is in communion with Rome. A simple google search will provide you with plenty of information.
 
The Tewahedo Church is not supposed to be in communion with Rome, but on the local level people in practice often do not recognize any schism between the local Tewahedo Church and the Roman Catholic Church. They will practice both - grow up Tewahedo, and then when they have kids go over to the Roman Catholic church where the Liturgies aren’t 6 hours long, but at no point ever be conscious of having “converted” or “translated” churches. (An Eritrean Roman Catholic acquaintance of mine told me this is how she was raised.)
 
That is absolutely not the experience I’ve had in talking to Tewahedo people in my local area (where there are a lot of them). Perhaps it is different on the ground in Eritrea or Ethiopia, but in the diaspora there definitely is an emphasis on Orthodox identity.
 
Brother Dzheremi is correct in his assessment. Orthodox in the diaspora tend to be more cognizant of the Catholic-Orthodox divide. A good part of the self-awareness is due to the influence of EO in the “Orthodox unity” movement.

An interesting distinction between the mother Church and the diaspora is that the hierarchy in Ethiopia has an explicit belief in the doctrine of Mary’s Immaculate Conception, while many (not all) in the diaspora tend to reject it.

Blessings,
Marduk
 
mardukm said:
Brother Dzheremi is correct in his assessment. Orthodox in the diaspora tend to be more cognizant of the Catholic-Orthodox divide. A good part of the self-awareness is due to the influence of EO in the “Orthodox unity” movement.

An interesting distinction between the mother Church and the diaspora is that the hierarchy in Ethiopia has an explicit belief in the doctrine of Mary’s Immaculate Conception, while many (not all) in the diaspora tend to reject it.

Blessings,
Marduk
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My experience is the same as what Cecilianus relates. I have been to a number of Liturgies where there was MUCH inter-communion, even among the clergy (priests and deacons). The Orthodox priest told me that many in both churches see no difference in the Catholic?Orthodox church and will receive the sacraments in either church.
 
TimothyH said:
Is the Ethiopian Orthodox Church in full communion with Rome, that is to say, is it a rite within the Catholic Church?

Please forgive my ignorance if I have phrased the question incorrectly.

-Tim-
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I think I may have asked that question awhile back myself. I ran across a huge Ethiopian Orthodox Church in Denver to my surprise. It was fairly new.
 
The Ethiopian Orthodox honour Pontius Pilate as a saint (Feastday: June 25th).

It is a fascinating Church with very unique traditions (very heavily influenced by Judaism as well).

I met an Ethiopian priest here once and asked him if it was true that his Church honoured Pontius Pilate as a saint.

To which he replied, “Yes, of course - don’t you?” 🙂

Frankly, I don’t find it offensive at all. (The Ethiopian Catholics don’t have that saint in their calendar . . . a Latinization?).

Alex
 
Yeoman said:
I think I may have asked that question awhile back myself. I ran across a huge Ethiopian Orthodox Church in Denver to my surprise. It was fairly new.
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You probably saw St Mary’s Ethiopian Orthodox Church in Aurora. They used to be in downtown Denver. I visited that Church before they built the new one. Wonderful Liturgy! There’s another Ethiopian Orthodox Church just south of downtown Denver and I was married in that Church (it used to be Russian Orthodox).

Both Churches in the Denver area are very conservative. As far as communion with Rome I think they have an agreement for inter-communion with Rome. There has been occasions when some from these Churches came to the Russian Church for communion, but the Russian Church would not allow it.
 
ciero said:
My experience is the same as what Cecilianus relates. I have been to a number of Liturgies where there was MUCH inter-communion, even among the clergy (priests and deacons). The Orthodox priest told me that many in both churches see no difference in the Catholic?Orthodox church and will receive the sacraments in either church.
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If only we could get that to work in North America and Europe. The schism could end not with a bang but a shrug, which is what should happen.
 
JackQ said:
If only we could get that to work in North America and Europe. The schism could end not with a bang but a shrug, which is what should happen.
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It used to be the case in Italy (both Sicily and Calabria, where my family is from, and Venice) where people would move from Albania and Greece and then simply accept the Pope as their local primate, while remaining in communion with their Orthodox brethren back home. This was the case through the 18th century; Nicolas Boulgaris for example is considered an Orthodox author (at least by Maloney his History of Orthodox Theology Since 1453, and Boulgaris’ Divine and Sacred Catechism is published by the Ecumenical Patriarchate’s publishing house), but his book is not only devoid of derogatory comments towards Roman Catholics but even quotes Popes and Cardinals and “Schoolmen” (always St. Thomas Aquinas) to show that the Orthodox customs are regarded as acceptable by the Roman Catholic Church.

St. Macarios of Corinth also lived in Venice for a while, in communion with the local Roman Catholic Church there.

Sometimes Greeks studying theology in Italy would even join local Roman Catholic religious orders such as the Dominicans before heading back home to join Athonite or other Orthodox monasteries. St. Maximos the Greek, a fellow reformer alongside St. Nil Sorsky, is a good example (he became a Dominican under the influence of Fra Savonarola).

It was also common for Ukrainian clergy to have studied theology in Rome, usually practicing as Roman Catholics during their duration there. St. Dimitri of Rostov is a good example.

It was also common for Roman Catholics living in Russia to live as Orthodox without ever being conscious of having changed their religion. I can’t think of any specific names, but I do remember reading in Fr. John Saward’s book Perfect Fools an example of a holy fool living in Russia who is said to have prayed in Latin and having come from Germany. I don’t seem to have written down his name, unfortunately, but Fr. Saward’s book is where you’ll find it.

And, of course, in the Middle East the Zoghby Initiative is practiced a lot more than it is here, so you’ll see intercommunion between Melkites and Antiochian Orthodox a lot more than is supposed to be going on according to the official rules.
 
Unofficial communion between latins and OCA has been low-level but present for decades in Alaska. Again, the official line is “No” but the practical line is best summed up by HG Nikolai’s own words: “It is up to the pastor to determine if someone is Orthodox enough to be admitted to Communion.”
 
Cecilianus said:
It used to be the case in Italy (both Sicily and Calabria, where my family is from, and Venice) where people would move from Albania and Greece and then simply accept the Pope as their local primate, while remaining in communion with their Orthodox brethren back home. This was the case through the 18th century; Nicolas Boulgaris for example is considered an Orthodox author (at least by Maloney his History of Orthodox Theology Since 1453, and Boulgaris’ Divine and Sacred Catechism is published by the Ecumenical Patriarchate’s publishing house), but his book is not only devoid of derogatory comments towards Roman Catholics but even quotes Popes and Cardinals and “Schoolmen” (always St. Thomas Aquinas) to show that the Orthodox customs are regarded as acceptable by the Roman Catholic Church.

St. Macarios of Corinth also lived in Venice for a while, in communion with the local Roman Catholic Church there.

Sometimes Greeks studying theology in Italy would even join local Roman Catholic religious orders such as the Dominicans before heading back home to join Athonite or other Orthodox monasteries. St. Maximos the Greek, a fellow reformer alongside St. Nil Sorsky, is a good example (he became a Dominican under the influence of Fra Savonarola).

It was also common for Ukrainian clergy to have studied theology in Rome, usually practicing as Roman Catholics during their duration there. St. Dimitri of Rostov is a good example.

It was also common for Roman Catholics living in Russia to live as Orthodox without ever being conscious of having changed their religion. I can’t think of any specific names, but I do remember reading in Fr. John Saward’s book Perfect Fools an example of a holy fool living in Russia who is said to have prayed in Latin and having come from Germany. I don’t seem to have written down his name, unfortunately, but Fr. Saward’s book is where you’ll find it.

And, of course, in the Middle East the Zoghby Initiative is practiced a lot more than it is here, so you’ll see intercommunion between Melkites and Antiochian Orthodox a lot more than is supposed to be going on according to the official rules.
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Would you have any references about St. Maximos being a Dominican? Thanks!
 
St Maximus the Greek was truly a Dominican follower of Jerome Savonarola and this is mentioned in the Slavonic Akathist to St Maximus that is on the website www.akafist.narod.ru

He witnessed the arrest and torture of Savonarola and then his ignominious death by hanging and burning in Florence. He left Italy in disgust and went to Russia where he became a monk and spent the rest of his life writing against the “corrupt West.” Through his influence, knowledge of Savonarola came to Russia and Russian Orthodox theologians were noted to speak highly of Savonarola (in the Akathist to St Maximus, Savonarola is referred to as"Blessed Jerome").

Because Maximus defended the Old Rite, he was obliged to suffer horribly for this as well. In his prison cell he wrote the “Canon to the Holy Spirit” on the wall which later became part of the Orthodox Church’s liturgical treasury.

Alex
 
Cecilianus said:
It used to be the case in Italy (both Sicily and Calabria, where my family is from, and Venice) where people would move from Albania and Greece and then simply accept the Pope as their local primate, while remaining in communion with their Orthodox brethren back home. This was the case through the 18th century; Nicolas Boulgaris for example is considered an Orthodox author (at least by Maloney his History of Orthodox Theology Since 1453, and Boulgaris’ Divine and Sacred Catechism is published by the Ecumenical Patriarchate’s publishing house), but his book is not only devoid of derogatory comments towards Roman Catholics but even quotes Popes and Cardinals and “Schoolmen” (always St. Thomas Aquinas) to show that the Orthodox customs are regarded as acceptable by the Roman Catholic Church.

St. Macarios of Corinth also lived in Venice for a while, in communion with the local Roman Catholic Church there.

Sometimes Greeks studying theology in Italy would even join local Roman Catholic religious orders such as the Dominicans before heading back home to join Athonite or other Orthodox monasteries. St. Maximos the Greek, a fellow reformer alongside St. Nil Sorsky, is a good example (he became a Dominican under the influence of Fra Savonarola).

It was also common for Ukrainian clergy to have studied theology in Rome, usually practicing as Roman Catholics during their duration there. St. Dimitri of Rostov is a good example.

It was also common for Roman Catholics living in Russia to live as Orthodox without ever being conscious of having changed their religion. I can’t think of any specific names, but I do remember reading in Fr. John Saward’s book Perfect Fools an example of a holy fool living in Russia who is said to have prayed in Latin and having come from Germany. I don’t seem to have written down his name, unfortunately, but Fr. Saward’s book is where you’ll find it.

And, of course, in the Middle East the Zoghby Initiative is practiced a lot more than it is here, so you’ll see intercommunion between Melkites and Antiochian Orthodox a lot more than is supposed to be going on according to the official rules.
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Excellent post. I’m currently reading a current events book that describes EXACTLY what you are saying in your last paragraph. Also, thank you for all the previous examples you listed.
 
Yes, that holy Fool was St Procopius of Ustiug who was a German who prayed in Latin. He was, however, fully a member of the Orthodox Church and many Germans and others were received into Orthodoxy.

St Dmitri of Rostov was Orthodox, of course, and St Peter Mohyla of Kyiv sent many Orthodox seminarians to Paris and Rome to study. They were there essentially to learn the tactics of the Jesuits etc. They NEVER worshipped in RC churches or thought themselves to be Catholics. The saints of the Kyivan Baroque era were very aware of their Orthodox identity as distinct from that of RCism even though they borrowed many Latin devotions. Several of these, including St Dmitri, wrote against the Unia and union with Rome i.e. repeating the views of their Orthodox environment.

St Maximus the Greek, as a student of Savonarola’s, was a Catholic for the duration of his time as a Dominican - period. Savonarola himself, although praised by Orthodox historians and theologians, believed that Eastern Orthodoxy was completely cut off from the true Church as a result of its non-recognition of the pope (he stated this explicitly in his writings). Maximus was quite an angry polemicist with the West after Savonarola’s death - it would be impossible to imagine that he would not have had a good idea of the boundaries between Catholicism and Orthodoxy.

That people moved from Church to Church - that is true. That they underwent baptism and confirmation/chrismation to do so was a given.

Alex
 
TimothyH said:
Is the Ethiopian Orthodox Church in full communion with Rome, that is to say, is it a rite within the Catholic Church?

Please forgive my ignorance if I have phrased the question incorrectly.

-Tim-
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The Ethiopian Church is Coptic. There is, in fact, a Coptic Catholic Church Sui Juris. It is not, however, the Ethiopian or Coptic Orthodox Church.
 
The Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church has been autocephalous since 1948. Ethiopians are not Copts.
 
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