Ethical question of buying a house that has renters

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pannonius

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Hi everyone,

My wife and I are in the process of buying (or rather searching for) our first house. In so doing, we’ve come across one that seems to suit our needs perfectly: it’s on a quiet residential street in a nice neighborhood, seems to be in decent shape although in some need of updating (which we look forward to as weekend projects to do together!), and is well within our price range (probably due to the updates it needs).

However, the problem is this. The owner of the house currently lives across the country and has rented the house to an elderly couple since his parents passed away over a decade ago. Our realtor has told us that the listing agent has had problems with showing the house because of the renters’ resistance, in part due to the husband’s poor health (he is in his mid-90s and has been in and out of hospitals) and also because they have lived there for a long time and consider it “theirs”. They’ve prevented the house from being shown, with some success, as (oddly) they have the only set of keys to the place.

My question is: is it permissible, from a moral or ethical standpoint, or simply out of Christian charity, to pursue this house while the dilemma of the renters is ongoing? From a practical perspective, I understand that as renters their rights to the property are limited; however, from an emotional perspective of empathy, I feel that pursuing this property while they are still living there would contribute to “the forced relocation of a poor elderly couple”. (I put this in quotes I acknowledge it’s hyperbole but it best expresses my feelings on the matter.)

Obviously, the owner is going to sell the house anyway, and thus the couple will have to move. No question about it. However, would we be playing a part in something uncharitable by even viewing (i.e., showing interest in) the house while they are still living there – even though there are other interested buyers lining up to see it? Is this lighting a fire under the owner to get them out faster?

Or are we being over-scrupulous in our discernment of conscience?

This is bothering me because this really could be the house for us, but at the same time we don’t feel we deserve it through “ill-gotten” means. That said, since there are other interested parties it’s possible we won’t have a chance at it anyway, and this is all moot.

I look forward to hearing other perspectives – your feedback is much appreciated!
 
Would it be possible for you to take over the lease and receive the rental income from the property until the couple is ready to move into assisted living, or else until they die?

Statistically speaking, the house could still be yours within the decade, since most people don’t live past 100 years old, and if it’s the perfect house for you, then buying the house and waiting a few years until this elderly couple is done with it, might be worth it. You would still receive an income from the house, and you can write it off against your mortgage, which would allow you to continue living somewhere else until the property becomes tenant-free.
 
jmcrae,

Ha! My mother had the same idea 🙂

Unfortunately, even from a strict economic perspective this is not an option for us for several reasons:
  • We are not in a position to pay both rent and a mortgage.
  • Even if we could do it on our current budget, we have to move to the same area as where this house is anyway due to a change in employment, and rent thataway is definitely higher than where we are now. (I would guess that our current apartment, transplanted there, would run for about 50% more than what we currently pay.)
  • While I am not familiar with the owner’s financial obligations on the house nor the terms of the lease with the tenants, it is my suspicion that the house that he inherited (40 years after his parents built it) had little to no mortgage payment left on it, and that the amount of rent likely wouldn’t offset the added cost of our mortgage.
Thank you for the idea, though – it is certainly charitable, just not realistic one for us.

Does this mean walk away until we hear that the house is vacant?
 
Maybe you could help them find a good assisted living building that would accept them. After all, maintaining a house is a lot of work for able-bodied people. It must actually be a burden to an older couple with health issues. They’re probably hanging on because they think they have no other options. Maybe you could help them in that way?
 
Perhaps you can have a long phone call with the owner… saying that they’ll be gone in a few years and you’re very concerned that they have nowhere to go until then. And maybe wait for a few years to buy it, if you can? I mean you could offer the owner some sort of official guarantee that you will buy it.

This way you don’t have to just hope that nobody else will turn the poor couple out and take the house you want… but you’ll have the guarantee that both of you are covered! I don’t know if this is realistic or not…🤷
 
pannonius said:
jmcrae,

Ha! My mother had the same idea 🙂

Unfortunately, even from a strict economic perspective this is not an option for us for several reasons:
  • We are not in a position to pay both rent and a mortgage.
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That’s why you would use their rent money to pay either your rent, or the mortgage. You’ve already mentioned that the mortgage isn’t all that large. As the new owner, it’s up to you, what you charge them for rent. As a bonus, you can write off the income from rent against your mortgage - it’s tax free. 🙂
Does this mean walk away until we hear that the house is vacant?
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It’ll be sold to someone else, by then.
 
Movem out coldly if you want to be worldly about it, afterall, it’s your property “not reccomended”, relocate them to something unfamiliar to them, scary for anybody to be forced to do, especially if you are elderly. Talk to the couples family and see if any are willing to take them in since they need medical care. Hang onto it, renting to them and/or sharing it with them as another option, surely you can handle a little hardship should you have to find more expensive accommodations and showing that ol Christian charity by giving them some assistance in their lives would not be a bad way to go at all.
 
Good to see compassion in your consideration…This is letting your light shine…May the Lord direct your path…Definitely pray as I figure you probably are…Share with your pastor as you probably are also…Here’s the thing, God knows what’s going on and it’s your part to see what He has in this…What are you to learn…Is there a social worker that is working with them ? Any family members for you to contact…They must know that it’s going to sold…Lord give my brother wisdom regarding this situation…Keep us posted…
 
As in all things, take it the Lord in prayer. If this is indeed “the house for you” then God will make a way.
 
jmcrae said:
It’ll be sold to someone else, by then.
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Quite probably, although there have been 3 offers on the house that have subsequently been withdrawn due to the tenant issue (the prospective buyers needed to close sooner than the house would be vacated).
prodigalson12 said:
Movem out coldly if you want to be worldly about it, afterall, it’s your property.
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I don’t want to be worldly about it, else I wouldn’t be posting here. 🙂

Well in reality the owner is moving them out, not me, although we could certainly have a say in what happens to the couple if we put a bid in on the house (and it’s accepted). However, the extent to which we can prevent the eviction of the tenants is arguable, since the owner has already gone to a lawyer who’s threatened to have the locks changed if the couple continues to prevent the realtor from showing the house. :eek:

I had meant to say in my original post (but lost it over the course of editing) that the selling agent and the owner are both working to try to help the couple find a suitable place to move to, so it’s not entirely that they are cold-heartedly throwing them into the street and leaving them to their own devices. However, prodigalson makes a very good point that it doesn’t change the fact that it might be scary for them simply from the perspective of the unknown. Continuing in this vein I could also imagine that they feel that the house symbolizes their independence, which contributes greatly to an elderly person’s feelings of self-worth (especially in this day and age, but that’s another rant for another thread).

It’s a complicated issue. I guess we’ll have to go tour the house and see if these suggestions of extending their lease under our ownership is even an option… So far we’ve only seen the listing and driven by the house (and got information on it from our realtor). If upon closer inspection we aren’t interested in the house after all, then this question is moot.

Thanks everyone for your thoughtful and creative feedback, I certainly appreciate it!
 
During my college days my wife and I lived in the basement of house that was adapted into an apt. The owners were elderly in their late 80’s and I quickly became their “go to guy” from emergency - help my wife has fallen, to weekend gardening - to driving etc. It became a burden some times. Due to health issues they both went to a nursing home together and passed away together within 6 months of each other.
After they passed, the house was overrun by their children, who never visited but lived in the same town or within an hours drive. For three years I cared for their parents, who they had abandoned - due to long family fueds and disagreements, which I learned after the fact.
The point being, I bet this long time rental couple has close family nearby. Call their L.L. and ask about their extended family. Contact the family and discuss the situation and perhaps you will learn more pertinent facts to help with your decision.
But if the “whole” story cannot be resolved and justified, offer this house as an offering in mercy to God, and walk away allowing the couple to remain in the comfort of their old age, in familiar surroundings.
 
It sounds like the couple is overstepping their rights as renters. It sounds like they are probably going to be moved out before the sale is completed, because they are making a claim to the house when it isn’t theirs and they are preventing the owner from selling HIS house. In that case, their eviction has nothing to do with you buying the house, only with the owner selling it.

Basically it comes down to the owner’s actions, and the renters’s actions, not your’s. There’s really nothing you can do about the renters.
 
Julian0404 said:
During my college days my wife and I lived in the basement of house that was adapted into an apt. The owners were elderly in their late 80’s and I quickly became their “go to guy” from emergency - help my wife has fallen, to weekend gardening - to driving etc. It became a burden some times. Due to health issues they both went to a nursing home together and passed away together within 6 months of each other.
After they passed, the house was overrun by their children, who never visited but lived in the same town or within an hours drive. For three years I cared for their parents, who they had abandoned - due to long family fueds and disagreements, which I learned after the fact.
The point being, I bet this long time rental couple has close family nearby. Call their L.L. and ask about their extended family. Contact the family and discuss the situation and perhaps you will learn more pertinent facts to help with your decision.
But if the “whole” story cannot be resolved and justified, offer this house as an offering in mercy to God, and walk away allowing the couple to remain in the comfort of their old age, in familiar surroundings.
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CO HABITATION, the key to it all here.
 
Hello there,

Renters are almost always a problem. I have little sympathy for them. The 90 year old part and the bad health thing is a bit complicated. In this market, there are thousands of listings. Find another. A short sale or foreclosed place where you can get that great deal.

The old renters are the bad guys here and have no real rights but act as though they do and are a a big pain to the listing agent, but why take a chance that you may have guilt over a possible death.

If you must make an offer, then write in the offer that the house will be empty at closing. Period. If they are still there, you will never get them out in this court system. I could see them coming into the courtroom in a wheel chair and you are done. They could be in there for years. The bank does not care who lives there. They want there money. You will be paying off the new debt, taxes and insurance no matter what your problem is.

Best to find another place.

Good luck,
YYY
 
YipYupYep said:
Hello there,

Renters are almost always a problem. I have little sympathy for them. The 90 year old part and the bad health thing is a bit complicated. In this market, there are thousands of listings. Find another. A short sale or foreclosed place where you can get that great deal.

The old renters are the bad guys here and have no real rights but act as though they do and are a a big pain to the listing agent, but why take a chance that you may have guilt over a possible death.

If you must make an offer, then write in the offer that the house will be empty at closing. Period. If they are still there, you will never get them out in this court system. I could see them coming into the courtroom in a wheel chair and you are done. They could be in there for years. The bank does not care who lives there. They want there money. You will be paying off the new debt, taxes and insurance no matter what your problem is.

Best to find another place.

Good luck,
YYY
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I don’t know how “bad” these tenants are in the sense of moral turpitude, but I would run from this deal. If the owner has these problems, why do you think you won’t? If you buy a house with tenants in it, you are taking it with “notice” of whatever claims the tenants think they have (or really do have) against the current owner. If you contract to buy it subject to the place being vacant, you might wait for months and months while the legal processes grind on. Further, while it might not seem likely, tenants who are finally evicted often trash the place before leaving, out of spite.

I would be looking elsewhere instead of, as they say “substituting my backside for the current owner’s”.
 
Just from the purely practical standpoint for you, this obstinate elderly couple would be a big headache for you. I wouldn’t close on the house until the landlord had resolved the matter. The couple needs to be in assisted living, it sounds like. Someone evicting them might provide just the impetus they need and would be a blessing in disguise.

Just because they are elderly doesn’t give the right to interfere with the sale of the house which they don’t own.
 
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