Ethics of couponing

[Pug]

The winetags I’m talking about don’t offer any discount on the alcohol itself. They say “save $$ on pizza” or “save $$ on meat” and in small print it says “no alcohol purchase necessary.”

It might be against the law for them to offer the coupon for the wine itself. I always use those cross-coupons, though. Like if you buy four frozen dinners, then you get $5 off your next purchase of groceries. I tally that as cheaper frozen dinners in my mind. It’s just the way my mind works. That’s how I’d tally a “sherry” coupon, assuming it was a coupon I would be guaranteed to use. I wouldn’t tally the coupon against whatever I bought with the coupon. Whatever I bought with the coupon would have to be cheap enough for my budget *before *the discount was applied.

I’m probably the total consumer dupe.

 

[Melancholic]

It might be against the law for them to offer the coupon for the wine itself. I always use those cross-coupons, though. Like if you buy four frozen dinners, then you get $5 off your next purchase of groceries. I tally that as cheaper frozen dinners in my mind. It’s just the way my mind works. That’s how I’d tally a “sherry” coupon, assuming it was a coupon I would be guaranteed to use. I wouldn’t tally the coupon against whatever I bought with the coupon. Whatever I bought with the coupon would have to be cheap enough for my budget *before *the discount was applied.

I’m probably the total consumer dupe.

No, where I live there are plenty of coupons hanging on bottles for the alcohol only, some for “buy X alcohol and X grocery and get $$ off” and then the ones I’ve been asking about, “no alcohol purchase necessary.”

I think I understand your thought process, but I wouldn’t be buying the sherry.

 

[Melancholic]

Here is another questionable situation:

Sometimes, a store is offering a promotion but someone figures out that the promotion doesn’t always work the way that it’s advertised. A recent example: One of my stores had a promotion for “buy a pizza and 2 cases of soda at full price and receive $$ off instantly.” It turned out that buying 5 pizzas at full price also triggered the $$ discount at the register. Is it wrong to intentionally buy only pizzas to get the discount? I am very torn on this one.

If you say it’s not wrong, take a look at this other recent example. Another instant $$ comes off when you buy a roast plus bags of celery, carrots and and potatoes. The deal is advertised as “buy the roast get the vegetables free.” Again, someone figures out that buying the roast and the carrots triggers the discount, without having to purchase the other vegetables. This feels like fraud/theft to me, because it’s likely that the store is taking a loss. Is the store taking a loss with the pizza? Probably not, because 5 pizzas cost more than 1 pizza and 2 cases of soda.

 

[flyingfish]

Here is another questionable situation:

Sometimes, a store is offering a promotion but someone figures out that the promotion doesn’t always work the way that it’s advertised. A recent example: One of my stores had a promotion for “buy a pizza and 2 cases of soda at full price and receive $$ off instantly.” It turned out that buying 5 pizzas at full price also triggered the $$ discount at the register. Is it wrong to intentionally buy only pizzas to get the discount? I am very torn on this one.

If you say it’s not wrong, take a look at this other recent example. Another instant $$ comes off when you buy a roast plus bags of celery, carrots and and potatoes. The deal is advertised as “buy the roast get the vegetables free.” Again, someone figures out that buying the roast and the carrots triggers the discount, without having to purchase the other vegetables. This feels like fraud/theft to me, because it’s likely that the store is taking a loss. Is the store taking a loss with the pizza? Probably not, because 5 pizzas cost more than 1 pizza and 2 cases of soda.

It’s just a case of the store not advertising every single deal they have. If the deal is programmed into the register, why are you worried? How can it be theft if the machine automatically takes it off?

 

[Pug]

I’ve gotten that very same five pizza discount, and it was advertised. I suspect with that particular one you are dealing with a legitimate discount that they didn’t waste the ad space to promote. Often that one runs for a whole month, but they only advertise it for one week in the flyer. If you read the fine print, though, it says it is on for the whole month.

I also think I’ve seen that one advertised through those silly checkout notices that print out when you pay. It was only because I read the notice that I knew about the promotion.

My husband is the tombstone pizza king.

 

[Melancholic]

flyingfish,

Exactly the argument I’ve been hearing on the other forum… But intentionally taking advantage of a computer error can’t always be allowable, just because it’s the computer’s error… Is it ok to assume it’s intended by the store and not an error? When I ask about anything computer related, it’s obvious that the customer service people at individual stores aren’t really informed about how upper management programs the promotions into the system.

Pug,

These were DiGiorno, not Tombstone. Not the same? It’s possible I could have missed it, but this coupon forum is veeeerrry thorough when it comes to the monthly deals etc.

 

[St_Francis]

The wine tags thing seems to be designed to get you into the wine aisle, so I would say that using those coupons would be ok.

The peelies… no, I don’t think that’s ok either. But I do think that the company is making the error there–I think they are trying to get people to buy something else *along with *the item on the peelie. But I would not take peelies off one product to use on another, because of the people who would buy the product itself.

This is the thing about couponing: don’t let it get to you. Your attitude strikes me a bit as that of people involved in gambling, getting something for much less or nothing, and you seems somewhat over-involved. “If I do this, then I can get that,” over and over… to the point that your house sounds pretty fully stocked and you are giving stuff to the food pantry (whose charity is it when you get something for almost nothing and give it away? I understand the time factor, but maybe how much time is *actually *involved? Maybe you could instead teach others how to do this?). Maybe you could just back off and only use it for your regular shopping list, as opposed to all this other stuff?

I may be over-reacting to your comments, because I tend to have that difficulty a bit myself and now I have to totally de-clutter my house of stuff I bought really cheap. Just because you don’t pay as much money for an item doesn’t mean you have saved money; if you wouldn’t have bought it to begin with, then you spent some you otherwise wouldn’t have spent.

I don’t think that what you are doing is wrong, just that it’s the sort of thing it would be very easy for some, including me, to get over-invested in, esp since you are worrying about the morality of some things involved.

 

[eaglehwsj]

Yes, I (usually) read the fine print and try to follow what it says. I don’t know where the line of overboard is, and if something is not sinful then I can go overboard, right?

Melancholic,

It is almost always sinful to go overboard. The adage “too much of a good thing” comes to mind. Going to mass too much can be sinful if you are neglecting other responsibilities.
I can’t say anything specific about you here, but be careful that you do not go too far in “couponing.” (though that is why you started this thread isn’t it )

As for the “peelies” and winetags, they’ve always seemed to me that they are targeted specifically at the buyer of the product they are attached to. Taking them off a product you are not buying (even if you are buying something else from the same company) is stealing from the eventual customer of whatever you took the peely off of; even if that eventual customer never knows they were supposed to get a discount. To put it in perspective, what would you say about someone stealing from an older lady with dementia? She may never notice the theft, and no one close to her may ever catch it; but, the theft still occured.

 

[Newbie2]

My thoughts on coupons:

How about if you have questions about using a wine tag or other such coupons, asking the store manager if it’s OK to use in such a manner as you describe?

“Peelies”. Removing any packaging or discount from a product that you are not buying is tantamount to theft. One is certainly taking the discount that the person who is buying it would have.

Arguing with a clerk over taking a questionable coupon is unethical. If they don’t take the coupon, don’t buy the product. If you want to argue about it, talk to customer services, don’t make the other people in line endure your diatribe and don’t harrangue the poor clerk; he or she just works there, they don’t dictate coupon policy.

If spending too much time on couponing is taking away from family time, that’s not good either. If it’s a matter of either eating or spending time couponing, that’s a different matter, but I suspect that it can become like an addiction.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

Thanks for all the responses. It is nice to have an outlet to talk about this without anger.

Rascalking,

Yes, I (usually) read the fine print and try to follow what it says. I don’t know where the line of overboard is, and if something is not sinful then I can go overboard, right?

StillWondering,

No, no signs with things like winetags or peelies.

flyingfish,

It’s hard to know sometimes, because peelies often say “good on any X-brand product” – if I had handed you the the one off the garlic toast for instance, you wouldn’t have been able to tell me which of that brand’s products I got the coupon from.
I would not call us poor; we can pay our expenses but for years we have been struggling to save money and that’s with living frugally. Super couponing is allowing us to finally put some money in the bank.

PaulinVA,

I’m sorry, I don’t quite understand your train of thought? When I took the peelie from the garlic toast I used it right away on the garlic bread, and they were both same company, same price. The idea being if you are buying any product of the same value as the one the peelie is on, it is no loss to the company so it is fine. And I did not walk out of the store with the peelie and no product, though some people do this and say they will buy the product later when it is on sale. They figure that the company still sells its item eventually (where else are they going to use the coupon?) so it’s fine.

Langdell,

Looking at what I have done, it’s more like buying a different style suit that didn’t have any extra buttons and taking the extra buttons from the first style suit to go with it. Same company’s suits, same price suits. And yes I think a big part of my issue is taking the opportunity away from a future shopper to use a peelie.

Writer,

I wish you could be more specific. What changes it? Everything I wrote? I don’t understand the comparison to refunding products never purchased, at all.
Like I said above, super couponing is allowing us to save money for the first time in a long time. My questions about winetags and peelies are just a tiny part of it, and I’ve only used those things a handful of times. This is a lot of work but I view it as another part-time job, because it is paying like a part-time job. I would not say that it is a waste of time and focus. After all, I am now donating more to our church’s food pantry than ever before and I am helping some unemployed family members to stock their pantries for very little, so the work feels like service too.

But what if I go in to buy the garlic toast, and I go because there is a “peelie”, but I find no “peelie”? I think the peelie’s are for the purchaser. You might not be cheating the company, but what about the consumers who buy the merchandise sans “peelie”. Why do I need to pay more because others are usurping the peelie?

 

[Rascalking]

You can go overboard, yes. But make sure your not obsessed with the small stuff. You could go insane worrying about couponing and then not worry about about the big things. No, I’m not saying you personally would-but what I’ve noticed is SOMETIMES (that’s the key word) people who worry about couponing type things walk by the homeless and not give them a dime, walk by an abortion clinc and ignore it, etc.

I think the human being only has a certian reserve of emotions they can use to worry about things. If they worry about the little things, when something truly tragic happens they won’t notice.

Again, I’m not saying you personally would do any of those things…it’s just something to be aware of.

 

[TedDC]

Wait, you are taking the coupons attached to a product and using them, even though you aren’t buying the product?

Isn’t the implication here if you buy the product you get a reduction in price now or later based on purchasing the product? But you aren’t purchasing the product? How is that not stealing?

Yeah, I agree with that - if the coupon is attached to the product, it’s pretty clearly intended for the purchaser of that product.

 

[Pug]

flyingfish,

Exactly the argument I’ve been hearing on the other forum… But intentionally taking advantage of a computer error can’t always be allowable, just because it’s the computer’s error… Is it ok to assume it’s intended by the store and not an error? When I ask about anything computer related, it’s obvious that the customer service people at individual stores aren’t really informed about how upper management programs the promotions into the system.

Pug,

These were DiGiorno, not Tombstone. Not the same? It’s possible I could have missed it, but this coupon forum is veeeerrry thorough when it comes to the monthly deals etc.

I think an obvious error should not be taken advantage of. Say I see an entire, top brand standing rib roast with a scan tag of $3.95. I know perfectly well no one is selling such a thing for that price. Maybe they meant per pound, maybe they moved a decimal point. Either way, I’d talk to the meat department before buying the item. They will probably need to reprice the entire case of meat. The only way I wouldn’t is if that supermarket regularly has a special bin with outrageously cheap meat in it.

If the potential error is obscure, well, that is the result of them using scan pricing. It is not my job to police their entire scanner system. I may try to tell them something is amiss, but as you say, often the basic employee is not able to respond to your concerns. They are strongly benefiting from the use of a scanner system in the long run, mistakes and all. That’s why they use it.

 

[Melancholic]

St Francis,

(whose charity is it when you get something for almost nothing and give it away? I understand the time factor, but maybe how much time is actually involved? Maybe you could instead teach others how to do this?)

I don’t think you have any idea how much work this is and yes, how much time it takes. Do you think I’m not being serious when I compare it to another part-time job? I can say with confidence “No, not everyone can do what I’m doing.” It is not easy. I’ve been couponing on this level for 3 months… do I really feel secure enough to try and teach somebody else? I make mistakes all the time. Why am I here asking these questions… don’t you see that I’m still working out how to do this with a clean conscience, and you want me to go ahead and teach someone else?

I’m asking specific questions about special situations, not ones that I run into all the time. I’m sorry if it makes me sound obsessive. “If I do this, can I get that” is fleshing out the line between right and wrong, NOT because I’m only going to barely toe the line and get away with whatever I can. If it’s sounding like I might be playing devil’s advocate, it’s because I am. I want the line to be well defined and sound, please.

Just because you don’t pay as much money for an item doesn’t mean you have saved money; if you wouldn’t have bought it to begin with, then you spent some you otherwise wouldn’t have spent.

I suppose you are right here, but when I look at the family budget I see an enormous difference. For the most part, the items “I wouldn’t have bought to begin with” are the ones that are being donated or that extended family like to use. Why get only what my family needs, when I can supply the needs of others?

 

[Melancholic]

Thanks to everyone else for your replies. I wasn’t expecting such a response against peelies but the arguments make sense, and I’ll avoid using them in the future unless they are attached the product I’m actually buying. As for the winetags, if they are physically attached to a bottle I’ll leave them alone, but it sounds like they are fine to use when they are attached to a tearpad, even when I am not buying the alcohol.

If the potential error is obscure, well, that is the result of them using scan pricing. It is not my job to police their entire scanner system.

This makes me feel much more at ease. Thank you.

 

[Melancholic]

Ok, new question.

This one is about “overage.” Sometimes people use a coupon that has a higher value than the price of an item, like $1.50 off salad that is on sale for 0.99. Then they make a profit (overages are never given back as cash but they discount the price of other items being bought). This is obviously fraud. Now, if there is a store-only coupon for item x which can be used along with a manufacturer’s coupon for item x (most stores allow them to be combined), and the result is overage, is that morally acceptable? Is there anything intrinsically wrong with making money by buying an item?

 

[St_Francis]

St Francis,

I don’t think you have any idea how much work this is and yes, how much time it takes. Do you think I’m not being serious when I compare it to another part-time job? I can say with confidence “No, not everyone can do what I’m doing.” It is not easy.

I just brought that up for consideration–I just was unsure of the use of super-couponing for charitable purposes…

I’ve been couponing on this level for 3 months… do I really feel secure enough to try and teach somebody else? I make mistakes all the time. Why am I here asking these questions… don’t you see that I’m still working out how to do this with a clean conscience, and you want me to go ahead and teach someone else?

Sure, why not? Teaching poor people how to use coupons to improve their budget sounds like a good idea: you know the saying, give a man a fish, he eats for a day; teach him to fish and he eats forever (unless the feds make it so we can’t fish anymore, but that’s another topic!)

You’re still learning, that’s cool, but you are further ahead than someone who doesn’t know anything at all about it, right?

I’m asking specific questions about special situations, not ones that I run into all the time. I’m sorry if it makes me sound obsessive. “If I do this, can I get that” is fleshing out the line between right and wrong, NOT because I’m only going to barely toe the line and get away with whatever I can. If it’s sounding like I might be playing devil’s advocate, it’s because I am. I want the line to be well defined and sound, please.
I was just suggesting that what you are doing *might *be a problem only because for some people (like me!!!) it probably would be. There are certain things I don’t do precisely because for me they are problems, but I would not say that those activities would be harmful for others just because of that. Just bringing it up because for some people it might be.

I think that what you decided about the wine tags sounds just right–I really think they are placed there to get people to go down the wine aisle and possibly buy some wine.

I suppose you are right here, but when I look at the family budget I see an enormous difference. For the most part, the items “I wouldn’t have bought to begin with” are the ones that are being donated or that extended family like to use. Why get only what my family needs, when I can supply the needs of others?

 

[Langdell]

Ok, new question.

This one is about “overage.” Sometimes people use a coupon that has a higher value than the price of an item, like $1.50 off salad that is on sale for 0.99. Then they make a profit (overages are never given back as cash but they discount the price of other items being bought). This is obviously fraud. Now, if there is a store-only coupon for item x which can be used along with a manufacturer’s coupon for item x (most stores allow them to be combined), and the result is overage, is that morally acceptable? Is there anything intrinsically wrong with making money by buying an item?

I’m not sure I follow you here. Are you saying that a store will give you store credit if you present a coupon for more off the price of an item than the item costs? I didn’t even know that was possible. (I’ll admit, I’m a man and have no patience with coupons.)

.

 

[Melancholic]

Sure, why not? Teaching poor people how to use coupons to improve their budget sounds like a good idea: you know the saying, give a man a fish, he eats for a day; teach him to fish and he eats forever (unless the feds make it so we can’t fish anymore, but that’s another topic!)

You’re still learning, that’s cool, but you are further ahead than someone who doesn’t know anything at all about it, right?

But just a couple of days ago, I might have taught that person all about winetags and peelies. Then they might go out and start doing the wrong thing, and it’s my fault I steered them that way. When I get to the point where I feel confident at this, I would enjoy teaching a class at our church or something, but as of now I’d rather give others the websites that I’ve been learning from, and there is also a lady who gives couponing presentations at local libraries (she’s a pro!).

 

[Melancholic]

I’m not sure I follow you here. Are you saying that a store will give you store credit if you present a coupon for more off the price of an item than the item costs? I didn’t even know that was possible. (I’ll admit, I’m a man and have no patience with coupons.)

It’s like the price of the item ends up being negative. Say an item costs $1.50, and I have a store-only coupon for $1 and another manufacturer’s coupon for $1. You can’t combine two manu. coupons or two store coupons, but it’s perfectly legal to combine one of each so long as a store’s policy allows it (which most do) and so long as no individual coupon is worth more than the price of the item. So on the receipt, it has the price of the item when it was rung up and the coupons come off at the bottom after they are scanned. If I try to check out having only bought that item, the register will lock up because the total is negative and they can’t give me money back. But people put other items in their order to soak up the “profit” they made from buying the first item, and the register has no problem. Some stores do not allow overage and the register will never allow the price of an item to go below 0, but most stores don’t have it programmed that way.

Another example is an item that generates a coupon at the register for $$ off the next order at that store. If the cashier rings up my $1.50 item, I use a $1 manu. coupon to bring it down to 0.50, and out comes a $1 coupon from the register, I have made a net profit of 0.50 (leave tax out of it). In that case no extra items need to be bought to soak up overage.

This is something that couponers do all the time and they rarely have any problems, because it usually fits within store policy guidelines. I think it is ok, because the coupons are like currency I receive from the manufacturer and the store. They both put the coupons out knowing that any redemption of their coupon costs them $1. I’m not taking more money from them than they were already offering; I am combining the different offers advantageously.