Ethics of Fur

[4elise]

How did Obama come on his thread? It is not a question of whether someone can afford a coat or not.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I have never seen a “fur farm”, so I don’t know what they’re like. But on the assumption they’re not necessarily cruel in themselves (or more cruel than nature, let’s say) it’s hard for me to object very much. It’s probably a pretty good assumption that without the fur farm those animals would not have lived at all.

I think fur can definitely have utility. Best coat I ever had was a sheepskin coat. I imagine they utilize the mutton as well, but I don’t know that it’s required before humans can be allowed to wear fur. I wore it out and can’t bring myself to pay the price of a new one. But for the cost, though, I would. Nothing is as good as sheepskin for a coat.

I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure the leather is the point of alligator farms. You can buy alligator meat, but I don’t think many do. My impression is that the leather is the whole point of raising them. They make cowboy boots out of kangaroo leather and ostrich leather, but I don’t think people eat those either. I guess they’re good boots, though I have never owned any of those. I don’t know what they do with the bodies of, e.g., fur farm mink. Probably grind it up and feed it to other minks. There isn’t a whole lot that goes totally to waste in any kind of animal-raising venture.

I always considered womens’ fur coats a senseless vanity. Or at least I did until my wife proposed that I get my deceased aunt’s fur coat redone for her. I was kind of surprised, because my wife is not given to vanities. But I did it. And you know, it really looked good on her! Mighty warm too, or so she says. I can’t explain why, but I think if it makes a woman feel good to wear a fur coat, and if she isn’t deliberately trying to flaunt wealth or whatever, I can’t really find fault with it. I guess it gives her a bit of a lift to wear it, and that’s okay. I guess it’s kind of like jewelry in a way, or a fancy pair of shoes. It means something to women in a way that it does not to men, even though it may not be particularly utilitarian and could be thought of a needless vanity. But I don’t think “needless vanity” is the whole story with fur, any more than it is with a pair of earrings or a bracelet or a pair of Italian-designed shoes. Who on earth really needs a diamond engagement ring, after all? But women want them.

Consequently, if fur farms are no more cruel than nature is (and nature is pretty mean) I find it difficult to find fault with people wearing fur.

A man in a fur coat (other than sheepskin) makes me think “pimp”, so I see that differently, just as I hate seeing a man with a big diamond ring.

 

[severus68]

Really, we are talking about God, He isn’t limited by his own creation. He could have made woolen clothes, cotton clothes, silk. God gave them the furs.

Yes, we are talking about God. God also allowed violence after the Fall but it was not God’s creation. Adam and Eve felt shame including shame about their nakedness. The animals had to suffer the consequences of Man’s fall. We can reduce acts of violence against animals too if we want. Nothing bad, only good to do that.

 

[Marfran]

A mink coat is a luxury item, it is not a question of the price being inflated or not. Furs are best left on and look best on their original owners.

Amen!!!

 

[Marfran]

How did Obama come on his thread? It is not a question of whether someone can afford a coat or not.

I had the same thought!!! He sneaks in everywhere doesn’t he!!! A note to the mink rancher: there are many people in this thread that come from countries other than the United States.

 

[Marfran]

I have never seen a “fur farm”, so I don’t know what they’re like. But on the assumption they’re not necessarily cruel in themselves (or more cruel than nature, let’s say) it’s hard for me to object very much. It’s probably a pretty good assumption that without the fur farm those animals would not have lived at all.

Precisely the point. WE SPECIFICALLY breed these in animals into existence for our desires/vanities/luxuries. (And again, these are not FOOD animals.)

 

[Marfran]

I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure the leather is the point of alligator farms. You can buy alligator meat, but I don’t think many do. My impression is that the leather is the whole point of raising them. They make cowboy boots out of kangaroo leather and ostrich leather, but I don’t think people eat those either…

Thanks, Ridgerunner!!! You’re giving me ideas for a new thread!!!

 

[Marfran]

Yes, we are talking about God. God also allowed violence after the Fall but it was not God’s creation. Adam and Eve felt shame including shame about their nakedness. The animals had to suffer*** the consequences of Man’s fall***. We can reduce acts of violence against animals too if we want. Nothing bad, only good to do that.

Yes, let’s not forget how God originally created the world. Man screwed things up for himself, for the animals, for the planet… And now we must struggle through the ugliness and find the path back to God.

Peace

 

[Marfran]

I always considered womens’ fur coats a senseless vanity. Or at least I did until my wife proposed that I get my deceased aunt’s fur coat redone for her. I was kind of surprised, because my wife is not given to vanities. But I did it. And you know, it really looked good on her! Mighty warm too, or so she says. I can’t explain why, but I think if it makes a woman feel good to wear a fur coat, and if she isn’t deliberately trying to flaunt wealth or whatever…

Exactly what I have been saying. If you ***really want ***a fur coat you do not have to buy a new one that promotes the continuation of a cruel industry. There are plenty of “used” and “pre-owned” furs out there. They can be re-furbished, re-fitted, and re-styled. And all at a cost much less than a NEW one. Recycling is much better for the environment. Resale shops have become more prominent in this day and age, and they perform an important ecological function!!!

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

Yes, we are talking about God. God also allowed violence after the Fall but it was not God’s creation. Adam and Eve felt shame including shame about their nakedness. The animals had to suffer the consequences of Man’s fall. We can reduce acts of violence against animals too if we want. Nothing bad, only good to do that.

Brief Genesis Lesson: When Adam asnd Eve saw they were naked, they put on fig leaves, When God told them to leave the garden , “Yahweh God made tunics of skins for the man and his wife” Genesis 3 21-23

 

[bigfootbob]

I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure the leather is the point of alligator farms. You can buy alligator meat, but I don’t think many do. My impression is that the leather is the whole point of raising them. They make cowboy boots out of kangaroo leather and ostrich leather, but I don’t think people eat those either. I guess they’re good boots, though I have never owned any of those. I don’t know what they do with the bodies of, e.g., fur farm mink. Probably grind it up and feed it to other minks. There isn’t a whole lot that goes totally to waste in any kind of animal-raising venture.

I’ve eaten alligator meat (I liked it) I also bought a shotgun from a guy who went alligator hunting, and he ate all the meat from it.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Exactly what I have been saying. If you ***really want ***a fur coat you do not have to buy a new one that promotes the continuation of a cruel industry. There are plenty of “used” and “pre-owned” furs out there. They can be re-furbished, re-fitted, and re-styled. And all at a cost much less than a NEW one. Recycling is much better for the environment. Resale shops have become more prominent in this day and age, and they perform an important ecological function!!!

I agree. It makes economic sense to “redo” an old fur.

But again, is the industry more cruel than nature? I have my doubts. “Mother Nature” is one mean b—h!

 

[vz71]

A mink coat is a luxury item, it s not a question of the price being inflated or not.

Are you absolutely sure about that?
I know others on this thread have a difficult time deciding if it is luxury or not, if it is expesive or not.

Just want to nail that down early.

 

[Marfran]

I agree. It makes economic sense to “redo” an old fur.

But again, is the industry more cruel than nature? I have my doubts. “Mother Nature” is one mean b—h!

Because “Mother Nature” is ***cruel ***does not mean that we should also be cruel. We are made in the “image of God.” We alone (not “Mother Nature” or the animals) are capable of compassion and mercy. We are to be caretakers of the Earth and the animals.

 

[Marfran]

I’ve eaten alligator meat (I liked it) I also bought a shotgun from a guy who went alligator hunting, and he ate all the meat from it.

And I have an alligator purse. Seriously, I have an alligator purse. It’s from the 1950’s, from Cuba or Florida. It’s an antique and I don’t know what to do with it. It would probably fetch a nice price in a resale shop. Recycle, renew, reuse…

 

[bigfootbob]

And I have an alligator purse. Seriously, I have an alligator purse. It’s from the 1950’s, from Cuba or Florida. It’s an antique and I don’t know what to do with it. It would probably fetch a nice price in a resale shop. Recycle, renew, reuse…

No way! Marfran with a alligator purse?

 

[Marfran]

I agree. It makes economic sense to “redo” an old fur.

And “vintage” clothing is all the rage nowadays. I am so glad to see the popularity of resale shops, and people selling their old stuff on ebay. And the young people are really getting into it!!! So if you really want that fur, you don’t have to buy new–and you can have a fur refitted and restyled for a more contemporary look!!

 

[Marfran]

No way! Marfran with a alligator purse?

Yes, Dude!!! I have an alligator purse!!! One Halloween I was even "the Lady with the Alligator Purse." Do you remember that nursery rhyme??? I would never buy a NEW alligator anything–but like I said this is an antique from the '50’s passed down to me.

 

[mmsiciliana]

A mink coat is a luxury item, it s not a question of the price being inflated or not. Furs are best left on and look best n their original owners.

It is the very fact that mink or sable coats are luxury items that makes some people cherish them and look at them as heirlooms. I am sorry but it also a fact that some pole are also revolted by furs, Fur coats need to be stored an handled properly and that adds on to the costs of having one. If someonelikes the feel of something soft, try faux fur. Its much cheaper, easier to maintain and no animals need die to give up their own fur.

“Fur coats need to be stored an handled properly”??? You mean like hung up in the closet on a hanger? There’s nothing special you need to do to store a fur coat. You can choose to store your fur coat in cold storage, if you want, but you don’t have to…
And “If someone likes the feel of something soft”, faux fur is nowhere near as soft as real fur.

 

[mmsiciliana]

I ***have not been shown that animals don’t suffer and are killed humanely. If wanted to ***I could probably afford several fur coats.

Accumulating earthly riches and killing animals to wear the fur that God gave to them, is not appealing to me, nor do I find it a responsible expression of the gift of “income” obtained from honest work.

So, you’re saying I’m a liar? I’m the person who has lived and worked on a fur farm. I’m the person who has told you over and over again that the animals don’t suffer while they’re alive and they are not killed by electrocution but are killed humanely. We should believe you? Why? What credibility do you have in this discussion?

I’ll bet you could afford several fur coats. You live in Manhattan, a place that has one of the highest costs of living anywhere. So why don’t you move from Manhattan to a cheaper place to live so that you can responsibly express the gift of income obtained from honest work? By the way, do you work for one of those failed banks that the government has shored up?